PN854

THE COMMISSIONER: Good morning. I will take appearances, please.

PN855

MS WALSH: Walsh, initial R, for the Australian Workers' Union.

PN856

MR M ROBSON: Robson, initial M, for United Voice.

PN857

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Robson.

PN858

MR J MILJAK: Miljak, initial J, for the AFEI.

PN859

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Miljak.

PN860

And in Melbourne?

PN861

MS V WILES: Wiles, initial V, for the Textile Clothing and Footwear Union.

PN862

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Wiles.

PN863

And we have someone in Newcastle, is it?

PN864

MS K THOMSON: Yes, Commissioner. Thomson, initial K, for ABI New South Wales Business Chamber.

PN865

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Thomson. All right.

PN866

There's no issue with permission to appear for anybody, I take it. Ms Wiles, you're ‑ ‑ ‑

PN867

MS WILES: We don't ‑ no, we don't have an objection.

PN868

THE COMMISSIONER: And Ms Thomson, you're a direct employee of the Business Chamber?

PN869

MS THOMSON: Last time I appeared before you, Commissioner, you granted me permission so I would ask that that be extended to today.

PN870

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. Thank you. Thank you. Permission is extended for today.

PN871

MS THOMSON: Thank you.

PN872

MR MILJAK: Commissioner, is this for legal practitioners, I assume?

PN873

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, yes.

PN874

MR MILJAK: Well, I was admitted as a lawyer just recently, last week. Does that mean that I ‑ ‑ ‑

PN875

THE COMMISSIONER: Congratulations.

PN876

MR MILJAK: Thank you, Commissioner. Does that mean that I now have to seek permission as well to appear?

PN877

THE COMMISSIONER: You're an employer. You're a ‑ ‑ ‑

PN878

MR MILJAK: Because I'm appearing here as an ‑ of AFEI only.

PN879

THE COMMISSIONER: In that case not.

PN880

MR MILJAK: No, okay. Thank you, Commissioner.

PN881

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN882

Mr Robson, was there anything you needed to add or ‑ ‑ ‑

PN883

MR ROBSON: No, no, no, I was just trying to help, assist my friend.

PN884

THE COMMISSIONER: I see. Okay.

PN885

MR MILJAK: And he was too. Yes, thank you.

PN886

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. This is a continuation of the conference that was held before me on 27 March. And there's a revised summary of submissions that has been published that I intend to go through item by item to see if there's any further possibility of agreement between the parties or any other narrowing of the issues potentially that can resolve. There are two documents that the parties have been provided with this morning.

PN887

One is a document that was provided by ‑ was it you, Ms Wiles?

PN888

MS WILES: It was, Commissioner, that's correct.

PN889

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. That was provided this morning. They're two double sided pages. One is headed ‑ well, they're both headed, "Termination of employment and redundancy." They relate to clauses 33 and I'm presuming the parties have copies of those?

PN890

MR MILJAK: Yes.

PN891

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, everyone's nodding. All right. And the other is a background paper prepared by the AMOD team. I hope the parties have a copy of that as well.

PN892

MR MILJAK: Yes, Commissioner.

PN893

MR ROBSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN894

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you.

PN895

Mr Robson, I understand from my associate that you had a suggestion about the order of events this morning?

PN896

MR ROBSON: Indeed, Commissioner. I've conferred with my ‑ apologies. Robson for United Voice. I've conferred with my friends both here and in Sydney and we think there may be some value at some stage of the conference, perhaps once we've identified what matters are outstanding, taking the discussions off record, seeing if there's any movement we can get there, and then of course bringing it back on record if there's any agreement or anything to be recorded after that. But of course we're in your hands, Commissioner.

PN897

THE COMMISSIONER: No, I'm happy to proceed on that basis. If we could start by identifying which of the matters are still up in the air and once that's done then I'm happy to go off the record. Of course I will before we conclude today go back on the record to confirm what's taken place during the conference.

PN898

Are the parties in Melbourne and Newcastle happy to proceed on that basis?

PN899

MS WILES: Yes, it's Ms Wiles here. Yes, we are, thank you.

PN900

MS THOMSON: And yes, Ms Thomson as well.

PN901

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. In that case who ‑ Mr Robson is perhaps ‑ would you like to identify which matters?

PN902

MR ROBSON: I understand based on the draft report, which I need to ‑ where the hell have I put that?

PN903

MS WALSH: I've highlighted all of the items.

PN904

MR ROBSON: Yes.

PN905

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, I'm happy for someone else to do it. I was simply ‑ you were the first point of call because it was your suggestion.

PN906

MR ROBSON: No, of course. And I've had ‑ I've got my copy of the report in front. Item 7, and of course that's been reported on in the AMOD background paper. Item 8, item 9, item 11, item 12, 15, 17, 18, 19, item 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26 and item 31.

PN907

Now, I understand a number of those items were ‑ parties were supposed to file submissions or confirm that they still pressed those matters either before today's conference or at today's conference. It might be worthwhile going through to see if any of those matters are still pressed and if there's anything after that outstanding then we could go off record and discuss whatever was left.

PN908

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. I'm happy to do it that way then. Perhaps then I'll start as I have done in many other conference. I go through items one by one, first confirm which items are still being pressed. I won't ask the parties for any detail at this stage as to why they're pressing or the basis upon which they're pressing these items. But that way we can identify at least which ones have been agreed and/or are not pressed. Then we can perhaps go into conference and just have the discussion regarding those items that are identified as still being pressed.

PN909

MR ROBSON: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN910

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, thank you. Item 1?

PN911

MS THOMSON: We don't press our objection to that, Commissioner.

PN912

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 2 is agreed?

PN913

MS WALSH: I understand that to be agreed.

PN914

THE COMMISSIONER: And, apologies, as I go through could everyone just continue identifying themselves and their point when they do so. It's just for the ease of the transcript. It makes ‑ thank you.

PN915

MS WALSH: Yes, Commissioner. It's Ms Walsh. I understand item 2 is agreed.

PN916

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN917

Mr Robson, can you just confirm?

PN918

MR ROBSON: United Voice agrees.

PN919

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN920

MR MILJAK: Miljak, AFEI. We agree.

PN921

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN922

Parties in Melbourne and Newcastle, agreed?

PN923

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles here. Yes, we agree that ‑ ‑ ‑

PN924

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN925

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson, agreed.

PN926

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 3?

PN927

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh. I understand this is agreed and that all parties agreed it would be preferable to insert the definition at clause 4 rather than 2 at the last conference.

PN928

MR ROBSON: United Voice agrees with that.

PN929

MR MILJAK: As would AFEI, Commissioner.

PN930

MS WILES: TCFUA agrees with that.

PN931

MS THOMSON: And ABI New South Wales Business Chamber, likewise.

PN932

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. So definition of dry cleaning and laundry industry should appear only once and only in clause 4. That will be recorded as what's agreed. Item 4?

PN933

MS THOMSON: It's Ms Thomson here, Commissioner. I think there was some consideration in the notes column about this matter being dealt with in the group 4 exposure drafts in accordance with plain language principles. So I think we're in the Commission's hands on that one.

PN934

THE COMMISSIONER: So is it the position then that it's no longer pressed given that it's been dealt with in another Full Bench?

PN935

MS THOMSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN936

THE COMMISSIONER: By another Full Bench, all right. Thank you. Anyone have any other comment in relation to item 4? No?

PN937

MS WALSH: No, Commissioner.

PN938

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 5?

PN939

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh here. I understand this is the TCFUA's submission but I've recorded this item as all other parties were neutral.

PN940

THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Wiles?

PN941

MS WILES: Sorry, I couldn't hear what was just said. Which item are we on now?

PN942

THE COMMISSIONER: Apologies, item 5.

PN943

MS WILES: Yes, look, my instructions are that the TCFUA won't be pressing that amendment.

PN944

MR MILJAK: Commissioner, I understand from consulting my notes here that AFEI did state previously that it was uncertain as to why it would be necessary to change the wording of the facilitative clause. However, I don't think that AFEI will be pressing an objection in relation to it.

PN945

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. So it appears then that none of the ‑ the parties are not pressing the item 5 point?

PN946

MR MILJAK: That would be correct, Commissioner. We wouldn't be pressing our position to that. I think that we were the only ones on record.

PN947

THE COMMISSIONER: It appears that you and the TCFUA were the only ones on record.

PN948

MR MILJAK: Correct. We won't be pressing an opposition.

PN949

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 6?

PN950

MS WALSH: That's withdrawn, isn't it? Did you withdraw it?

PN951

MR ROBSON: Yes, yes, that's just withdrawn.

PN952

MS WALSH: That was withdrawn.

PN953

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 6 withdrawn?

PN954

MS WALSH: Yes. Item 5 was withdrawn.

PN955

THE COMMISSIONER: Apologies. I did not hear that. Someone said ‑ again would you mind just identifying who you are and then speaking? It's just for the ease of the recording. I believe someone said something about ‑ ‑ ‑

PN956

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh speaking. I understood that the TCFUA just withdraw item 5.

PN957

MR MILJAK: AFEI would have no problem.

PN958

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. That will be recorded then for item 5. Item 6?

PN959

MR ROBSON: I understand that's agreed. Sorry, Robson for United Voice. I understand that's agreed as per the TCFUA's proposal.

PN960

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN961

MR MILJAK: Miljak, AFEI. We would agree with that.

PN962

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN963

MS WILES: TCFUA. That's our understanding from the last conference as well.

PN964

MS THOMSON: And Thomson. We don't oppose.

PN965

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 7 is, as I understand it, one of the items that is to be discussed off the record to start with, is that correct?

PN966

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh. Yes, Commissioner. Item 7 and 8 as they ‑ in that they both consider this issue of the additional word "ordinary" is still pressed. Thank you.

PN967

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 9 falls in the same category in terms of discussion?

PN968

MS WALSH: Yes, Commissioner. Ms Walsh.

PN969

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 10?

PN970

MR ROBSON: Robson, Commissioner, for United Voice. That's agreed as per the TCFUA's proposal.

PN971

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 11 to be discussed?

PN972

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the AWU. Yes, to be discussed. We still oppose that submission.

PN973

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 12, to be ‑ ‑ ‑

PN974

MR MILJAK: Commissioner, if I just may, Miljak from AFEI.

PN975

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, thank you.

PN976

MR MILJAK: In relation to item 11 I believe that was an AFEI submission there.

PN977

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Miljak?

PN978

MR MILJAK: My understanding is we'll just have a chance to discuss that at the point where we go off transcript as well.

PN979

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, yes, and we ‑ Mr Miljak, we will be going back on transcript so you'll have an opportunity to put on transcript whatever it is that you wish to put on transcript.

PN980

MR MILJAK: Yes, yes. Thank you, Commissioner. We may not be pressing it but that's good to know. Thank you.

PN981

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 12?

PN982

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the AWU. We will be pressing this item and I can imagine this one will go off transcript as well.

PN983

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 13?

PN984

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the TCFUA.

PN985

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Wiles.

PN986

MS WILES: My understanding from the last conference is that this item is not opposed except for ABI which had reserved its position.

PN987

MS THOMSON: It's Ms Thomson here. And that might be withdrawn if I can just have some time during the off‑transcript to further contemplate that one.

PN988

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. We'll put that then in the basket to be considered off the record.

PN989

MS THOMSON: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN990

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 14?

PN991

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the AWU. My understanding is that during discussions at our last conference the parties were agreed as set out in the notes in summary of submissions.

PN992

MR ROBSON: United Voice confirms its agreement.

PN993

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN994

Mr Miljak?

PN995

MR MILJAK: Miljak, AFEI. It would appear that this was agreed at the last conference in which case we wouldn't change our opinion.

PN996

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN997

MS WILES: TCFUA. We consider that the item was agreed.

PN998

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN999

MS THOMSON: And Thomson. Likewise, Commissioner.

PN1000

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 15?

PN1001

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh. We're still pressing this item at this stage. Further discussions would be helpful, I think, to all the parties.

PN1002

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. We'll put that in the basket of things to be considered off the record.

PN1003

MS WALSH: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN1004

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 16?

PN1005

MS WILES: Ms Wiles here for the TCFUA. I understand that this was really ‑ that this matter was agreed, that there was no opposition to the TCFUA's submission.

PN1006

MR MILJAK: Miljak, AFEI. We would not oppose.

PN1007

MR ROBSON: United Voice agrees.

PN1008

MS WALSH: AWU agrees, Commissioner.

PN1009

MS THOMSON: And ABI New South Wales Business Chamber don't oppose.

PN1010

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 17, to be discussed, is that ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1011

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the AWU. Yes, I just wanted to also foreshadow that item 17 and item 21 might become ‑ or might be discussed together as they both deal with toil. So if we could discuss perhaps both of those items offline and come back on transcript?

PN1012

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 18?

PN1013

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh again. We're still pressing this item. The TCFUA were revisiting this matter so ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1014

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the TCFUA. Look, we're had another look at that issue and we no longer oppose the AWU's proposed wording.

PN1015

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Ms Wiles.

PN1016

MR MILJAK: Miljak for the AFEI. It appears that we would prefer the wording to the exposure draft to that proposed by the AWU. So that remains ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1017

THE COMMISSIONER: So that remains on the table as far as you're concerned?

PN1018

MR MILJAK: Yes, correct, Commissioner.

PN1019

THE COMMISSIONER: In that case we might leave that then in the basket of issues to be discussed off the record.

PN1020

MR MILJAK: Yes, Commissioner.

PN1021

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 19?

PN1022

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the AWU. Item 19 remains in dispute.

PN1023

THE COMMISSIONER: Okay. Item 20?

PN1024

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh again. The same for item 20, remains in dispute.

PN1025

THE COMMISSIONER: You've already mentioned item 21, Ms Walsh.

PN1026

MS WALSH: Yes.

PN1027

THE COMMISSIONER: So that remains to be discussed. Item 22?

PN1028

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh again. We have a proposal which the parties are still discussing. AFEI ‑ I'm not sure if they'd said more other than that it might be a substantive change.

PN1029

MR MILJAK: Miljak, AFEI. That would be our concern. We would just want to ensure that any wording wouldn't amount to a substantive change of the award.

PN1030

THE COMMISSIONER: Would you like to have that in the basket of things to be considered during the conference off the record and then go on the record or ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1031

MR MILJAK: That may be helpful, Commissioner, thank you.

PN1032

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 23?

PN1033

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the AWU. All parties are agreed with, as I understand, the TCFUA's submission other than ABI.

PN1034

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1035

MS THOMSON: And this is Ms Thomson. Commissioner, we're happy to no longer press that.

PN1036

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. So item 23 is no longer pressed and/or agreed by the parties, is that the position?

PN1037

MR MILJAK: Yes.

PN1038

MR ROBSON: Yes, Commissioner. Robson for United Voice.

PN1039

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 24?

PN1040

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles here for TCFUA. My understanding ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1041

THE COMMISSIONER: I'm sorry, Ms Wiles, could you just speak up a bit or perhaps put the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1042

MS WILES: Yes, is that better?

PN1043

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Yes, it is. Thank you.

PN1044

MS WILES: Okay. My understanding from the previous conference is that the only party who opposed the TCFUA's submission in relation to item 24 was ABI.

PN1045

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here, Commissioner. Can we put that one in the matters for discussion, please?

PN1046

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, not a problem. Item 25?

PN1047

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1048

MS WILES: Ms Wiles ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1049

MS WALSH: Ms Wiles, you go.

PN1050

MS WILES: My understanding from the previous conference is that the TCFUA and the AWU consider that this is a significant change. And the TCFUA endorse the AWU's proposed wording to address the issue. But I suspect that's still in dispute but we could hear from the other employer parties.

PN1051

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here, Commissioner. Yes, that one is still in dispute.

PN1052

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 26?

PN1053

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles here. So following on from the previous conference we have ‑ the TCFUA's circulated draft proposed wording to the parties this morning and to the Commissioner. So that is for discussion I assume off record.

PN1054

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1055

MR MILJAK: Miljak, AFEI. We may just leave that for the off‑record portion of discussion.

PN1056

MR ROBSON: Robson. United Voice agrees with that approach.

PN1057

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1058

MS WALSH: AWU agrees, Commissioner.

PN1059

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 27?

PN1060

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the TCFUA. My instructions are that we won't be pressing that issue.

PN1061

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. The summary document will be amended to reflect that. Do we need the parties to have any comment in relation to item 27?

PN1062

MR ROBSON: No, Commissioner.

PN1063

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 28?

PN1064

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles here for the TCFUA. Following on from the previous conference the TCFUA was to consider drafting alternative form of words and circulate for the parties. We've had another look at that and we probably think it's a bit more complex than first hoped so we would suggest that that matter also be discussed off record.

PN1065

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 29?

PN1066

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1067

MS THOMSON: It ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1068

MS WILES: Sorry.

PN1069

MS THOMSON: Sorry, Ms Wiles. You go.

PN1070

MS WILES: So it's Ms Wiles here for TCFUA. In response to the submission by AFEI at the last conference where they agreed that the rates for the public holiday column were incorrect except we had different rates for skill level 3. We've had another look at that and AFEI, we think, are correct in relation to the skill level 3 wage which is $48.45.

PN1071

MR MILJAK: Commissioner, Miljak, AFEI. That's right, there just seems to be a minor discrepancy in relation to that level 3 rate but if the other parties are happy to agree with our calculation then that seems to resolve the matter.

PN1072

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you.

PN1073

MS THOMSON: It's Ms Thomson here, Commissioner. That matter has been addressed in the research paper as well.

PN1074

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN1075

MS THOMSON: So I think the AMOD team have had a look at that as well.

PN1076

THE COMMISSIONER: I appreciate perhaps that some of the parties have not had an opportunity to look at that paper in detail.

PN1077

MR ROBSON: Yes, look, we'd just like to take a second and talk about it offline and I think we'll probably ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1078

THE COMMISSIONER: I'd be happy to do that given that it was provided to the parties this morning. Item 30?

PN1079

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles here for the TCFUA. This is the issue around the contest between the method of calculation for casual rates of pay between a cumulative method and a compounding method.

PN1080

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN1081

MS WILES: I also note the research paper has ‑ or the AMOD team have responded. I haven't had an opportunity to read that as yet so I can't really comment any further but I assume that remains contested.

PN1082

THE COMMISSIONER: Again I'd be happy to give the parties that time to consider that paper during the course of the morning.

PN1083

MS WILES: Thank you.

PN1084

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 31?

PN1085

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh for the AWU. This is our submission about amending the rates and the rates tables in the schedule. We had undertaken to specifically provide written submissions as to what that would look like. So I apologise we haven't done this by today.

PN1086

But my understanding ‑ well, there's certainly nothing on record that any party opposes the substance of our submission being that there are no ordinary hours in the laundry stream on a Saturday. But I was going to suggest that we provide a specific proposal sort of this time next week for the parties to consider. But perhaps we can have also a quick discussion about that offline today as well.

PN1087

THE COMMISSIONER: I think that's my preferred option. I suspect that there will be a number of issues that arise from the off the record discussions where the parties may wish to put in further submissions or have further discussions outside the auspices of this conference, in which case that's something that we can discuss in terms of timing.

PN1088

I also foreshadow that if the parties feel it useful I would be happy to have another conference in this matter sometime after that period. And I have a number of conferences listed already in other matters so I'd be looking at a time ‑ I can foreshadow that now for the parties as well so that if there's any interest in it you could consider your timetables during the course of the morning. And at this stage I'm looking at the morning or afternoon of 1 June.

PN1089

MS WALSH: AWU have 1 June available.

PN1090

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Mr Robson?

PN1091

MR ROBSON: Yes, United Voice has the morning of 1 June available.

PN1092

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1093

MR MILJAK: AFEI would similarly have the morning of 1 June.

PN1094

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1095

Ms Wiles or Ms Thomson?

PN1096

MS WILES: Ms Wiles here. Yes, the TCFUA is available either in the morning or the afternoon.

PN1097

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1098

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. Either suits us, Commissioner. Thank you.

PN1099

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. In that case I will pencil in at this stage 10 am on 1 June as the next conference date. And of course if the parties prior to that time decide that there's no need for it then they can advise my Chambers or the AMOD team and that can be cancelled.

PN1100

What I'd like to do now, that concludes the matters and we can go off record to have the discussion regarding the matters that are still being pressed and are in dispute. And then I anticipate going back on the record to have the record reflect what actually is the state of play in relation to each of those items at the conclusion of the conference. So we can go off the record now.

OFF THE RECORD [10.39 AM]

ON THE RECORD [12.56 PM]

PN1101

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, thank you. We're back on the record now. It's 5 to 1 approximately, the parties having conferred on a number of the issues that were in dispute between them. I'll now go through the Revised Summary of Submissions ‑ Technical and Drafting item by item to record what has and has not been agreed between the parties and where they stand in relation to each particular item.

PN1102

I confirm that items 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 have been agreed. To the extent that any of the parties wish to say that they're not pressing a particular matter as opposed to using the words "agreement" I encourage them to do that now. So I'll start with item 1.

PN1103

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. We don't oppose that but we don't agree.

PN1104

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1105

Mr Miljak?

PN1106

MR MILJAK: We will also not be opposed.

PN1107

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 2?

PN1108

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. Not opposed.

PN1109

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1110

MR MILJAK: Mr Miljak, AFEI. Also not opposed.

PN1111

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 3?

PN1112

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh. All parties are agreed.

PN1113

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 4?

PN1114

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson. That one's no longer pressed, Commissioner.

PN1115

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 5?

PN1116

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the TCFUA. We're no longer pressing that amendment.

PN1117

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 6?

PN1118

MR MILJAK: AFEI does not oppose the TCFUA's proposal.

PN1119

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1120

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson. We don't oppose.

PN1121

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 7, as I understand it, is no longer pressed to the extent that it refers to the word "ordinary". That is a matter that we dealt with in item 8 and any references to the TCFU's submissions in item 7 are to be inserted into item 8. Is that the position?

PN1122

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh speaking. Yes, that's my understanding.

PN1123

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1124

MS WILES: And Ms Wiles here for the TCFUA. That's our understanding as well.

PN1125

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1126

MR MILJAK: AFEI could agree to that.

PN1127

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1128

ABI?

PN1129

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. Yes, sorry, Commissioner.

PN1130

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. Item 8, the table will be reflected to confirm that the parties are seeking clarification from the AMOD team as to what is actually being referred to as an ambiguity in the document prepared by the team and in particular in relation to the item 8 response in the first paragraph that says the term "ordinary" in clause 11.4 of the exposure draft was inserted to address a potential ambiguity regarding the hours of work for casual employees. All right. Thank you.

PN1131

MS WALSH: Thank you, Commissioner. My understanding is that some of the parties do seek further clarification of that issue as set out in the background paper and the AWU continues to press our submissions as they relate to this item 8.

PN1132

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, that the word "ordinary" should be deleted?

PN1133

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1134

MS WALSH: Yes, Commissioner.

PN1135

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1136

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the TCFUA. Yes, we support the submissions of the AWU and our previous submissions that the word "ordinary" should be deleted.

PN1137

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1138

MR MILJAK: Mr Miljak, AFEI. AFEI would not be opposed to going back to the wording of the current award. However, given that there is still some additional clarification that is being sought from the AMOD team AFEI will be happy to review that clarification when it comes to all parties.

PN1139

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1140

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. We continue to oppose the submission of the AWU but are happy to consider what arises out of the AMOD review.

PN1141

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. Item 9? The parties are, as I understand it, wanting to consider this matter further. And in particular, Ms Walsh, I understand that you will advise the parties if you, after consideration of the matter, will seek to have it arbitrated?

PN1142

MS WALSH: I think this issue is possibly broader than our interests only, given that it could go in a range of directions. I think from our perspective ‑ and if I could just note that I'm also appearing for United Voice. Both the unions seek some time to do some background and to consult further on this issue before we come back with a final ‑ well, not a final proposal but a further proposal.

PN1143

At this stage we're not doing away with our initial submission but I believe parties are going to all consider potential changes, including the removal of the word "average" and including ‑ potentially changing the dry cleaning stream, inserting some averaging provisions.

PN1144

MR MILJAK: Mr Miljak for AFEI. AFEI would remain opposed to any submission to delete a reference to averaging. To the extent that AFEI will be ‑ AFEI will be willing to consider or have a look at any proposal to vary the award with respect to anything that the union comes up with. However, we are not at present proposing any changes and would be opposed to any changes which would have the effect of deleting the reference to averaging.

PN1145

THE COMMISSIONER: Understood.

PN1146

ABI?

PN1147

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. Yes, we continue to press our objection to the AWU's submission but are of course open to considering any options put by the parties.

PN1148

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1149

Ms Wiles?

PN1150

MS WILES: Ms Wiles here for the TCFUA. We support the AWU's submission and oppose the inclusion of the word "average" in 13.1. In terms of any broader exploration of introducing an average provision into the dry cleaning stream we will obviously look at any proposals that are circulated to the parties.

PN1151

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1152

Ms Walsh, would a time ‑ some sort of time period in which you could provide any submissions or alternative wording that ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1153

MS WALSH: I think we'll ‑ this item's possibly a bit ‑ may take a little bit more time than the two weeks. So it might be appropriate to at least reach a position as to ‑ taking into account that the employers obviously oppose our proposal. If the unions are of the view that there was merit in alternatively coming up with a proposal that may be agreed to then perhaps ‑ well, I'm proposing that we at least come to that position by the time we're next here before you.

PN1154

THE COMMISSIONER: All right.

PN1155

MS WALSH: And then we'll either continue ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1156

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, at that point you'll either continue with the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1157

MS WALSH: Correct, or have the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1158

THE COMMISSIONER: ‑ ‑ ‑ discussions or you'll be saying, "I'm sorry, this is a substantive matter and that's" ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1159

MS WALSH: Yes, yes.

PN1160

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, thank you. So that decision will be made by the next conferences.

PN1161

MS WALSH: Thank you. Yes, that would be ‑ does that work for you, Ms Wiles?

PN1162

MS WILES: It does, yes. I obviously need to get instructions more broadly but I'll aim to do that quickly.

PN1163

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 10 has been agreed. Item 11 is, as I understand it, no longer pressed by the AFEI?

PN1164

MR MILJAK: Miljak from AFEI. Correct, Commissioner. To the extent that the exposure draft doesn't change the meaning of the current award we would not be pressing our submission.

PN1165

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 12 as I understand it is no longer being pressed by the AWU?

PN1166

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh. Yes, item 12 is withdrawn.

PN1167

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 13, as I understand it the parties agree that clause 14.1 of the current award should replace the first part of 18.1 in the exposure draft?

PN1168

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson from ABI. Yes, Commissioner, that's our position now.

PN1169

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles here ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1170

THE COMMISSIONER: Ms Wiles, perhaps if you could just confirm that that's the case?

PN1171

MS WILES: Yes, and also I think there was a suggestion to add additional words as follows.

PN1172

THE COMMISSIONER: That was perhaps ‑ Ms Walsh, was that your suggestion?

PN1173

MS WALSH: No, that was AFEI's suggestion.

PN1174

THE COMMISSIONER: Apologies.

PN1175

MS WALSH: But all parties, as I understand it, agreed to that suggestion so ultimately the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1176

THE COMMISSIONER: Perhaps if you ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1177

MS WALSH: ‑ ‑ ‑ exposure draft would revert to the current award at clause 14.1.

PN1178

THE COMMISSIONER: Perhaps if you could just, for the sake of the record ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1179

MS WALSH: Yes.

PN1180

THE COMMISSIONER: ‑ ‑ ‑ go to clause 14.1 of the current award? And if you could read out what you understand the position to be.

PN1181

MS WALSH: Yes.

PN1182

THE COMMISSIONER: And then the exposure draft can be amended to reflect that once everyone ‑ all parties agree.

PN1183

MS WALSH: Thank you, Commissioner. The parties agree that clause 18.1 of the exposure draft be replaced with the wording at 14.1 of the current award.

PN1184

THE COMMISSIONER: And that reads?

PN1185

MS WALSH: "An employer must pay fulltime employees weekly wages for ordinary hours (exclusive of penalties and allowances) as follows."

PN1186

THE COMMISSIONER: Is everyone happy with that position?

PN1187

MR MILJAK: Miljak, AFEI. AFEI would not be opposed to that submission.

PN1188

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1189

MS WILES: TCFUA supports that submission.

PN1190

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1191

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. We support that submission as well.

PN1192

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. Item 14 is agreed?

PN1193

MR MILJAK: Yes, Commissioner.

PN1194

MS WALSH: Yes, Commissioner, for the AWU.

PN1195

MS WILES: TCFUA, yes.

PN1196

MS THOMSON: AFEI, yes.

PN1197

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 15 I've got as being withdrawn by the AWU?

PN1198

MS WALSH: Yes, Commissioner.

PN1199

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 16, agreed?

PN1200

MS WILES: Yes, that's our understanding, Commissioner. TCFUA.

PN1201

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1202

MR MILJAK: AFEI does not oppose.

PN1203

MS WALSH: AWU agrees.

PN1204

MS THOMSON: ABI doesn't oppose.

PN1205

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 17 is dealt with in a similar fashion to item 21.

PN1206

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh on behalf of United Voice. United Voice have undertaken to provide a without‑prejudice draft time off in lieu clause that might deal with coth clause 23.4 of the exposure draft as well as clause 22.2 ‑ sorry, as well as clause 22.3 of the exposure draft. We didn't agree on a timeframe for that and given that United Voice isn't here at this moment I might just flag that.

PN1207

THE COMMISSIONER: I think perhaps if I could suggest a fortnight on the understanding and proviso that Mr Robson's not here.

PN1208

MS WALSH: Yes, yes.

PN1209

THE COMMISSIONER: And if that's an issue then he simply needs to advise the Commission and all parties.

PN1210

MS WALSH: I'll let Mr Robson know.

PN1211

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you so much.

PN1212

MR MILJAK: AFEI would be happy to proceed based on the understanding that we'll have an opportunity to look at some proposed wording in the future.

PN1213

THE COMMISSIONER: Of course.

PN1214

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. That's the same as our position.

PN1215

MS WILES: Ms Wiles here for TCFUA. Yes, we support that approach as well.

PN1216

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. Item 18, Ms Wiles, as I understand it the TCFUA is no longer opposing the AWU's wording in relation to item 18?

PN1217

MS WILES: Yes, that's correct, Commissioner.

PN1218

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. And as I understand it the AFEI and ABI wish to consider that wording and may, in fact, suggest an alternate wording. If that is the case then they will do so within a fortnight.

PN1219

MR MILJAK: AFEI. That is correct, Commissioner.

PN1220

MS THOMSON: As with ABI, Commissioner.

PN1221

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1222

Ms Walsh, you don't have anything you wish to put on the record in relation to that item?

PN1223

MS WALSH: No Commissioner.

PN1224

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 19. The parties wish to all record their respective positions in relation to this item as I understand it.

PN1225

MS WALSH: Yes, Ms Walsh for the AWU. Yes, we continue to press this matter.

PN1226

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1227

MR MILJAK: Mr Miljak for AFEI. Our position would be that we would oppose any submission to delete the reference and that we consider it to be a substantive change and we'll continue to oppose the AWU's submission.

PN1228

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1229

MS THOMSON: It's Ms ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1230

MS WILES: Ms Wiles ‑ sorry, please go ahead.

PN1231

MS THOMSON: Sorry, you go.

PN1232

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the TCFUA. We maintain our support for the AWU's proposal and submissions in relation to item 19.

PN1233

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1234

MS THOMSON: It's Ms Thomson, Commissioner. We continue to oppose the AWU's proposal.

PN1235

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 20?

PN1236

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh speaking. My understanding is that AFEI and ABI are to consider the proposed wording of the AWU in relation to this item and should they propose alternate wording that that fit in with the two week scheduling on foot for other items.

PN1237

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN1238

MR MILJAK: AFEI would agree with that summary of our position.

PN1239

MS THOMSON: ABI also agrees, Commissioner.

PN1240

MS WILES: The TCFUA continues to support the AWU's submissions and proposed wording for item 20.

PN1241

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 21 was dealt with in item 17 and is dealt with in a similar fashion unless the parties have anything they wish to add?

PN1242

MS WALSH: That's my understanding, Commissioner.

PN1243

MS WILES: TCFUA. We agree with that.

PN1244

THE COMMISSIONER: That's the one Mr Miljak or Mr Robson's going to draft some ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1245

MR MILJAK: Yes, correct. No, the toil ‑ the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1246

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, yes.

PN1247

MR MILJAK: Not necessarily ‑ I understand that he'll be providing some drafting.

PN1248

THE COMMISSIONER: Drafting something and then you're going to have an opportunity to ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1249

MR MILJAK: Correct. Yes, I understand and agree with that approach, Commissioner.

PN1250

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. We also agree, Commissioner. Thank you.

PN1251

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 22?

PN1252

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh speaking. We have undertaken to provide a specific proposal given that our submissions are a little unclear as to what would actually be inserted into the award. So we'll fit in with the two week schedule and provide something to the parties.

PN1253

MR MILJAK: AFEI are happy to consider once we've received some writing from the AWU.

PN1254

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1255

MS THOMSON: ABI reserves our position subject to reviewing what the AWU are circulating.

PN1256

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1257

MS WILES: TCFUA continues to support the AWU's submissions and will review a proposal that's circulated to the parties.

PN1258

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 23, as I understand it, is no longer pressed and/or agreed?

PN1259

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. That's correct, Commissioner.

PN1260

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. So no longer pressed by the ABI? Is that the wording?

PN1261

MS THOMSON: Yes, thank you, Commissioner.

PN1262

MR MILJAK: AFEI is not pressing any changes.

PN1263

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1264

MS WALSH: The AWU agrees with the TCFUA's proposal.

PN1265

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. Item 24?

PN1266

MS THOMSON: ABI here. We no longer press our objection to the TCFUA's proposal.

PN1267

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1268

MR MILJAK: AFEI also has no objection.

PN1269

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1270

MS WALSH: AWU agrees.

PN1271

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1272

MS WILES: Similarly with the TCFUA.

PN1273

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. Item 25?

PN1274

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here, Commissioner. This is another one of the clauses I think the employer parties are going to consider their position and advise.

PN1275

THE COMMISSIONER: Correct, and if you've got some alternate wording or some submission to make or something you'll do so within a fortnight?

PN1276

MS THOMSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN1277

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1278

MR MILJAK: AFEI is happy with that approach, Commissioner.

PN1279

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 26?

PN1280

MS WILES: The TCFUA has circulated a draft proposal this morning to the parties and to the Commission. And the parties will be given time to consider that prior to the next conference.

PN1281

MR MILJAK: AFEI will be happy to provide comment upon further review of the correspondence provided to us by the TCFUA as per the timeframe already outlined earlier.

PN1282

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1283

MS THOMSON: ABI similarly, Commissioner.

PN1284

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1285

MS WALSH: AWU is likely to agree to the proposed wording and will fit in with the scheduling.

PN1286

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 27, either agreed or not being pressed. So I'll hear from the parties as to what the record ‑ ‑ ‑

PN1287

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for the TCFUA. This was a matter raised by the TCFUA previously and we no longer press that issue.

PN1288

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 28?

PN1289

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh speaking. The AWU and the TCFUA ‑ and I might add United Voice as well ‑ will liaise prior to providing a subsequent proposal other than the one that's already being provided by the TCFUA.

PN1290

THE COMMISSIONER: Further, further proposal.

PN1291

MS WALSH: Yes, further, sorry. And consider what some of the schedules look like in the exposure drafts for a number of other awards with an aim to fit in with the two week schedule.

PN1292

That would be ‑ that was my understanding, Ms Wiles.

PN1293

MS WILES: Yes, although I thought ABI was going to be involved with that process. I can't remember exactly.

PN1294

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. No, we didn't have any particular input we'd like to make but we're of course happy to consider whatever it is that you propose because we can see the merit in the submission that you're putting.

PN1295

MS WILES: Okay, my apologies. I think I've got your voices mixed up, sorry. Yes, no, that's okay.

PN1296

MR MILJAK: Similarly to ABI, AFEI may potentially see some merit but we'll be happy to review once we've seen some writing.

PN1297

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you. Item 29 has been agreed?

PN1298

MR MILJAK: AFEI. Perhaps TCFUA should confirm that.

PN1299

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Ms Wiles?

PN1300

MS WILES: Yes, sorry. Yes, Ms Wiles for TCFUA. Yes, we confirm that we concur with the AFEI's calculation for the skill level 3 rate applying on public holidays. And we note that the correct rates are also included in the AMOD team's briefing paper provided to the parties this morning.

PN1301

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 30?

PN1302

MS WILES: It's Ms Wiles for TCFUA. This is an issue raised by both ourselves and I think United Voice originally. This is to do with the calculation of applicable entitlements for casual employees contained in schedule C. It would appear that there is a contest between the method of calculation between a compounding method or a cumulative method. And my understanding is that this matter is likely to go ‑ is a substantive issue that's likely to go to a substantive Full Bench.

PN1303

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1304

MS THOMSON: Ms Thomson here. I agree with Ms Wiles' characterisation.

PN1305

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1306

MR MILJAK: AFEI would similarly agree that the parties are opposed but that seems to be the way forward in relation to this issue.

PN1307

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1308

MS WALSH: AWU are not on record yet for this item so just put on record that we support the submissions of TCFUA and United Voice and understand it to be a substantive issue.

PN1309

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 31?

PN1310

MS WALSH: Ms Walsh speaking. My understanding is that the parties at this stage await a specific proposal as to what the schedules should look like to reflect our submissions. There is no apparent opposition at this stage and we'll provide that proposal within two weeks.

PN1311

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1312

MR MILJAK: AFEI would agree that we would confirm our agreement to any proposal upon seeing it in writing from the AWU.

PN1313

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1314

MS THOMSON: And ABI, we reserve our position subject to reviewing what AWU provide but appear to agree in principle.

PN1315

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN1316

MS WILES: And the TCFUA agrees with the AWU's submission and we'll review a written proposal when it's circulated.

PN1317

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you all. Okay, if there's nothing further I'll adjourn this conference until the morning of 1 June, I think. The notice will be published in due course when it's been sent out. All right. Thank you.

PN1318

MR MILJAK: Thank you.

PN1319

MS WILES: Thank you, Commissioner.

ADJOURNED UNTIL THURSDAY, 01 JUNE 2017 [1.24 PM]