PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon. Do I have on the phone Ms Anthony?

PN2

MS M ANTHONY: Yes, good afternoon, Mr Vice President. It's Ms Anthony appearing on behalf of APESMA.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: That's right. And I have for Ai Group, Mr Harrington?

PN4

MR M HARRINGTON: Yes. Good afternoon.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: This is the first return date of this matter, Ms Anthony. The Commission wrote to all the parties and put on the website that this matter was on. The only employer group that has responded at the moment is Mr Harrington from AIG. Was it your expectation, Mr Harrington, that other employers would be participating?

PN6

MR HARRINGTON: We have not yet had many other employer groups indicating that they have an interest in this matter.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So you're making inquiries from employer groups, Mr Harrington - for employers?

PN8

MR HARRINGTON: We have made no such inquiries.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: You've made no such inquiries. I mean, at the moment the reason I'm - this is a curious application to this extent, because the proposition is the HPSS Award should be varied to take into account translators and interpreters, and one of the questions will be is that the right award, but (indistinct) - you know, a proponent and an opponent, as to whether that is where they should be placed, or whether they should in fact remain award‑free. There are a number of questions that need to be addressed. Ms Anthony, have you had discussions with the employer groups?

PN10

MS ANTHONY: Look, probably I could assist with a little bit of background. We have actually made an application as part of the four‑yearly review, and I think there were a couple of employer groups who made general responses, but I'm not sure that those particular employer representatives - like, we didn't have anyone specifically representing the legal services industry appear or participate, and at this stage we do have a lot of communications with various employers in the language services industry. At this stage though I haven't had any responses, but I'd be more than happy to even undertake to correspond, if that was the process that you would like us to do, and I'm not sure if that's what this award (indistinct) - - -

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well we want to make sure that nobody is made - that should be here is missing out, in one sense, because if your application is successful it is a significant application ultimately. So we do advertise on the website when we make these applications and - but just make sure that the right people are being contacted.

PN12

MS ANTHONY: Well I'd be happy to undertake a process similar to what we did - we had to seek authorisation from the ACCC. A lot of interpreters operate as independent contractors and in order for us to represent them in a collective bargaining process we have to seek authorisation from the ACCC. So there is a process there for actually notifying I guess interested parties, industry parties. So we wouldn't be opposed to doing something similar to make sure that there is representation there from the people that we would see as being interested parties, and I'm happy to undertake to do that if that would assist.

PN13

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I think that would assist the Commission.

PN14

MS ANTHONY: I probably would just make one point, and that is that this award - the interpreters and translators, well interpreters at least, are already covered by this award. So it's not seeking new award coverage by a class of people that aren't award‑covered. They are actually covered under this award, but in the stream that's the support services stream, and that's why they're only covered when they're working in the health industry. And this application is slightly different to the one that we made in the four‑yearly review where originally we were seeking to have them moved from the support services stream into the professionals stream, but mainly for the purposes of just trying to get the occupational coverage, and this one's - it's more detailed, and I will say that when we have put together this application, we're now seeking for a schedule which covers classification levels for translators and interpreters, and that was put together in conjunction with NAATI, one of the parties that would also be probably seeking to support our application, and I believe with a witness statement would be from a representative of NAATI as well. So I wouldn't have any problems in saying we're happy to correspond and to go out to interested parties in the industry if that would assist, and I'm happy to cc your office with those letters seeking just to bring to attention to parties that the application has been made.

PN15

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Does it remain your view that the right award for it to be in is the HPSS Award given it's going to cover people potentially beyond the specific industry?

PN16

MS ANTHONY: Yes. The reason that we - and in the application we have gone through the fact that I think there was a number of awards that do make reference to translators and interpreters, but most of those providing for employees to get an allowance for working - if they're working in another occupation but they happen to have language skills; they might get an allowance if called upon to use those language skills. But in this award, in the Health Professions and Support Services Award, it actually provides for employees who are employed either where they might be working, say, in one of the health networks, but it also applies if people are in - if they're working for like a labour hire agency, which is what most of the legal services providers are. It's an agency that employs interpreters, who are then providing their services back to, say, hospitals or doctors in practice, or anywhere in the health industry. So those people are currently covered when they're doing that in the health industry. So what we're really seeking to do is to just extend that coverage so that if they're then working in a court doing interpreting they're also covered, whereas - and my understanding is - I think there's a section in the Act which provides that it's preferable that if an employee is already covered by an existing award, it's preferable to consider that that award be varied rather than seek to create a new award, and I believe that that's this current situation.

PN17

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, thank you. Mr Harrington?

PN18

MR HARRINGTON: I appreciate what the representative from APESMA is saying in respect of this application being slightly distinct to the matter which is brought in the context of the four‑yearly review, but this application does appear at least to be something of a re‑attempt to pursue a variation concerning expansion of award coverage for translators beyond the health industry. That was originally sought in the context of that review, and that decision was handed down back in January 2019. So we don't support the application to vary the awards proposed. We would appreciate an opportunity to make submissions in reply once APESMA's material in support of the application has been filed, and we would appreciate leave to apply to vary the directions if that becomes necessary at a later time, but we have nothing else to say on the matter at this stage.

PN19

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, well what I propose to do then is to allow Ms Anthony to do what we've discussed and stand the matter over for mention next year before any directions are made so that we see whether the pool of interested groups expands to any extent. I think that is the safest path to take at this point.

PN20

MR HARRINGTON: We're content with that approach.

PN21

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I understand the time of the year, so there won't be focus necessarily on this at this point. What I will do is I will list the matter for report back for 9 am on 9 February. Hopefully by that stage we'll have some further idea of what interest there is in this application. Anything further from you, Ms Anthony?

PN22

MS ANTHONY: No. That would be acceptable for us, and we propose to report back when the matter is next listed.

PN23

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you. The matter then will be adjourned to 9 February for further mention. Thank you.

PN24

MS ANTHONY: Thank you.

PN25

MR HARRINGTON: Thank you.

PN26

THE VICE PRESIDENT: The Commission is adjourned.

ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, 09 FEBRUARY 2021 [1.10 PM]