PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Hello, I’ll take the appearances.

PN2

Mr Hamilton and Ms Minster, you appear for Live Performance Australia.

PN3

MR D HAMILTON: That’s correct, your Honour.

PN4

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And Ms Wilson, you appear for the Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance?

PN5

MS M WILSON: That is correct, your Honour.

PN6

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN7

Well, I’ve perused the application, and I’ve seen the correspondence from MEA, which suggests a conciliation.

PN8

What do you think is the best path forward, Mr Hamilton?

PN9

MR HAMILTON: We’re open to that, your Honour. The application really is just to seek guidance from the Commission as to the correct payment for casual employees, it’s not an application to vary, per se. It’s just that the Fair Work Ombudsman had a particular view, which was contrary to our view, and therefore, we just sought to make sure that our members were paying the correct amount for casual employees, and public holidays, and other parts of the Award.

PN10

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, Mr Hamilton.

PN11

Well, I mean, we can't give an interpretation of the Award as such. What we can do is vary the Award to the extent that the existing provisions create any doubt, we can remove that doubt. That would require us, firstly, to form a conclusion about what the Award is intended to mean, and then, secondly, draft some variations, which make it clear, that the Award says what it’s intended to mean.

PN12

So you have a view about what it is meant to mean, do I understand you to have any disagreement as to the intended meaning between you and any other party, in particular, MEA.

PN13

MR HAMILTON: No.

PN14

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Have you (indistinct)10.17.10 with MEA about this issue?

PN15

MR HAMILTON: We’ve had preliminary discussion, your Honour. And Ms Wilson was reading the papers, I don't know what their particular position is, but I don't think that they’re arguing about what the intent of the Award is. But I’ll let Ms Wilson provide their position.

PN16

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN17

Ms Wilson, what do you want to say about it?

PN18

MS WILSON: Well, we hadn’t actually considered the Ombudsman’s interpretation of the Award, but having heard that, we want to just eliminate doubt as to which is the correct one, correct interpretation, and that’s why we thought a little bit of - at least a little bit, or maybe more, of conciliation might be helpful, to just thrash out, you know, what everybody thinks the interpretation should be, and how it’s actually interpreted in the real world.

PN19

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So do I take that to mean that MEA hasn’t actually turned its collective mind to the problem yet?

PN20

MS WILSON: Correct.

PN21

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, I mean, I’m not sure it’s useful to hold a conciliation till the parties have actually analysed the problem and worked out a position.

PN22

How long might it take you to do that?

PN23

MS WILSON: Well, look, I - really, I think we just need to talk to the to her side, because we had seen it as being fairly straightforward, and now there’s this sort of alternative interpretation by the Fair Work Ombudsman, which would be much more advantageous to our members.

PN24

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN25

MS WILSON: And so we don’t necessarily want to throw the baby out with the bath water but saying that that’s absolutely ridiculous. Because it is, you know, an interpretation, I just do whether it’s the correct one.

PN26

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN27

Well, again, how long might you need to consider, or your organisation to consider its position, and perhaps hold discussions with the applicant?

PN28

MS WILSON: We could probably do that within two weeks, I would think.

PN29

Mr Hamilton, would you agree with that?

PN30

MR HAMILTON: Yes.

PN31

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN32

Well, why don’t I do this? Why don’t I set the matter down for a further directions hearing on 1 November. I’m sorry, I can do it sooner than that. On 26 October, and if the parties advise me beforehand that it would be useful to do so, I can turn that into a directions and conciliation conference.

PN33

Would that be an appropriate course forward?

PN34

MS WILSON: That would be very helpful, your Honour.

PN35

MR HAMILTON: That’s fine, your Honour.

PN36

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN37

Well, I’ll adjourn on that basis. That the parties are directed to confer, and I’ll make it a report back and on request, conciliation conference to be held at 9 am on 26 October.

PN38

MS WILSON: Thank you, your Honour.

PN39

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN40

MR HAMILTON: Thank you.

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Anything further I can do today?

PN42

MS WILSON: Not from the Union.

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN44

Thanks for your attendance.

PN45

MS WILSON: Thank you.

PN46

MR HAMILTON: Thank you, your Honour.

ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, 26 OCTOBER 2021 [10.20 AM]