PN1

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Good morning. It's Deputy President Clancy. This is a conference for an application that's been made by the ASU to vary the Victorian Local Government Award 2015. Could I confirm I have on the line Mr Robson from the ASU? You're just on mute there I think.

PN2

MR ROBSON: Yes, your Honour.

PN3

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. Ms Preddich.

PN4

MS PREDDICH: Yes, Deputy President.

PN5

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you. And then for the local Council is Mr Katz.

PN6

MR KATZ: Yes, good morning, Deputy President.

PN7

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank. The parties will recall we have a mention in relation to this matter on the 27 August and a timeline was set so that, firstly, the local councils could consult and confer amongst themselves. And then, as I understand it, there was going to be some dialogue between them and the ASU. So the original timeline was extended to enable things to be explored and further to get us under way today I would appreciate an update as to the status. So I will ask Mr Robson to make some comments perhaps or Ms Preddich. I'm not sure which of you. And then Mr Katz can respond. Thank you.

PN8

MR ROBSON: Yes, thank you very much, Deputy President. And look we thank the Commission for the extra time to pursue discussions with Mr Katz and the local government authorities. We haven't been able to eliminate the differences between the parties but we think we have narrowed the scope of the issues of the dispute. I think there's a broad agreement about a two-hour minimum engagement of casuals with some exceptions and the parties have been able to agree some exceptions but I understand Mr Katz is pursuing some additional ones to that.

PN9

But the exception would be a one-hour minimum engagement as opposed to a two-hour minimum engagement. So the ASU would be agreeing with your local governments that there should be a one-hour minimum engagement for swimming instructors, fitness instructors, personal trainers and school crossing supervisors. And we have made a proposal to the local governments about cleaners to adopt the square meterage rule for minimum payments from the Contract Cleaners Award. And I understand Mr Katz is still seeking instructions on that point. So it's not settled. And then that would be the limit of the agreement. Mr Katz, I understand, is pursuing a one-hour minimum payment for a range of other types of work in local government but I might leave him to speak to that. I wouldn't want to put words in his mouth. And just we note that, you know, our agreements in space reflect discussions about this award. We don't want to be held to it in other award matters and, of course, we put it on record that our claims in bargaining may also be different again.

PN10

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Thank you. Now, just before I leave you the areas in which there has been some agreement reached and for those particular classifications or roles have the parties gone so far as to agree on a form of wording?

PN11

MR ROBSON: No. We don't have a form of wording, your Honour.

PN12

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right.

PN13

MR ROBSON: And we'd be proposing directions to file one before the end of the year.

PN14

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Okay. All right. Thank you, Mr Robson. Mr Katz?

PN15

MR KATZ: Thank you, Deputy President. Yes, Mr Robson has accurately reflected the agreement reached. We've had some very productive and fruitful discussions and we – you know – have managed to at least limit the scope of the dispute, which was we think was very useful.

PN16

So we oppose the two-hour minimum engagement area for the following additional classes of employees, that is, in addition to the ones that we have agreed on with the union. It's a list of 10 at present. Home carers, employees engaged in arts and culture including arts programs, exhibitions, museums, art galleries, events, entertainment and theatre. Now, that's the second category.

PN17

The third category is livestock and sales yard employees. The fourth category is library shelvers/stackers. The fifth category is pound attendants. The sixth category is community drivers. Number seven is childcare workers in play houses. Number eight, is occasional childcare workers engaged in leisure and aquatic centres. Number nine is youth workers engaged in social community and disability services. And the last category is employees engaged in visitor information centres.

PN18

Deputy President, most of these categories would fall under the definition of community services in the award but instead of just having a broad brush we want all community services excluded. We have actually identified specific positions within that description in order to further limit the – you know – the scope of the (indistinct).

PN19

So it sounds like a lot of different kinds of employees but we have tried to do it this way because we think it's easier than just to say community services which includes a lot more of type of employees than just the ones that we mentioned.

PN20

I think that's – yes, the rest I think Mr Robson will be able to address about – address you in the sense of what sort of programming we have in mind which we have been (indistinct) the union on.

PN21

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Okay. So let's move to that then, please.

PN22

MR KATZ: Michael?

PN23

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Mr Robson?

PN24

MR ROBSON: Apologies, Deputy President. You didn't come through clearly. What was the question?

PN25

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I'm sorry. We were going to move to what the parties have discussed in terms of further programming or future program, what they would propose.

PN26

MR ROBSON: Yes, of course, thank you your Honour. Look, we have briefly discussed programming. What we'd suggest is before the end of the year the parties file a joint report setting out the scope of the agreement and disagreement and then the ASU would file its evidence and submissions on the night – by 4.00 pm on the 19 February. The Local Government Association – sorry, not Association – the Local Government areas would have an opportunity to put it on – to consider that material and respond within a week. How long they'd need to put on their case and reply. And then, you know, the appropriate amount of time after that – a conference listed for programming if there's any disagreement – and then once the material – a further reply opportunity for the ASU after that and then programming the matter for hearing if that's necessary.

PN27

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Right. Well, might not the Full Bench just set a proposed timetable and then if the situation is that the first material is due by the 19 February that we then program material in response and then that in reply from there, and then a further conference or mention or perhaps even depending on the state of the material hearing dates but at least a mention following the receipt of the reply material.

PN28

I mean I anticipate what will be put is well we won't know how long we will need to reply until we see the material but I can give an indication that four weeks is likely to be the outer limit unless you are served with War and Peace, Mr Katz.

PN29

MR KATZ: Well, yes.

PN30

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I would have thought given the confined nature of the areas of disagreement and the discussions that have been had and the consultations that have already occurred it's not as if both parties are going to be having to conduct extensive investigation to the matters. The application has arisen out of what's been occurring with other awards. Some of those classifications have to my knowledge been the subject of the four-year review in respect of other industry awards. But some of them are peculiar to local government. So that's - - -

PN31

MR KATZ: That's (indistinct).

PN32

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Yes. All right. Well, look we'll certainly work on the basis that there be a joint report that will – I apprehend – that's a proposal so that what has been agreed will be clearly articulated to the Bench and what remains will be outlined as well. So that will serve a useful purpose and then for the material we'll adopt that first date and then I will give some thought to the further directions from there in consultation with the other members of the Bench.

PN33

All right. Well, thank you. Are there any further matters that either party wants to raise while we're in conference today?

PN34

MR ROBSON: None from the RT, your Honour.

PN35

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, Mr Katz?

PN36

MR KATZ: No, thank you, Deputy President.

PN37

THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All right. Well, thank you. And thank you for the update and it's been useful in outlining where the matter is in which direction it's proceeding. So that is appreciated. All right. There being nothing further we'll adjourn the conference and there won't be – if there's a statement there won't be a lengthy statement but it will certainly there will be communication to the parties regarding the indicative timetable. All right? Thank you very much.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [10.20 AM]