PN13993
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: Good morning everybody. Unless there's any preliminary
matters, Mr Gibian, do you want to call your witness?
PN13994
MR
GIBIAN: Yes. I understand he's waiting to be admitted.
PN13995
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: All right. Good morning. Is it Mr Basciuk?
PN13996
MR
BASCIUK: Yes, it is.
PN13997
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: I'm Commissioner O'Neill. Thank you for your time this
morning. My associate is just going to have you take the affirmation.
PN13998
MR
BASCIUK: Okay, no worries, thank you.
PN13999
THE
ASSOCIATE: Mr Basciuk, can you please say your full name and work
address.
PN14000
MR
BASCIUK: Eugene Ian Basciuk, 142 Cameron Street, Wauchope, Bundaleer Care
Services.
<EUGENE
IAN BASCIUK, AFFIRMED [9.02 AM]
EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF
BY MR GIBIAN [9.02 AM]
PN14001
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: Mr Gibian.
PN14002
MR
GIBIAN: Thank you, Mr Basciuk. This is Mark Gibian. As you
know, I appear for the HSU. Could I just ask you to repeat your full name
for the record?‑‑‑Eugene Ian Basciuk.
PN14003
You
are a maintenance tradesperson employed by Bundaleer Care Services in Wauchope?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14004
You
have made a witness statement for the purpose of this matter. Do you have
a copy of that with you?‑‑‑That I do.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XN
MR GIBIAN
PN14005
It
runs over nine pages and 63 paragraphs and there are some annexures. Do
you have all of those?‑‑‑That I do.
PN14006
Have
you had the opportunity to read the statement through?‑‑‑Yes,
I have.
PN14007
Is
it true and correct to the best of your knowledge and recollection?‑‑‑Yes,
it is.
PN14008
We
seek to rely on that statement. It's not in the court book, obviously, at
this point, but if that's sufficient identification for present purposes?
There was just one matter I was going to ask Mr Basciuk to clarify.
PN14009
Do
you have the first page of your statement?‑‑‑Yes, I do.
PN14010
You
see, in paragraph 7, you refer to there being, or you indicate that Bundaleer
provides aged care and retirement living in independent living units on the
same site?‑‑‑Yes, that's correct.
PN14011
Then,
in paragraph 8, you refer, on the second line, to there being 84 beds. Do
you see that?‑‑‑Yes, I do.
PN14012
Is
that in the home alone?‑‑‑That's 84 beds in the home alone,
yes, and there's 76 independent living units.
PN14013
In
addition to the 84 beds in the home?‑‑‑Yes, that's correct.
PN14014
Hopefully
on the screen in front of you, you can see a number of faces. One of them
is Ms Rafter, who is appearing for some of the employers' interests.
She's going to ask you some questions now?‑‑‑Okay.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS RAFTER [9.04 AM]
PN14015
Hi,
Mr Basciuk, my name is Alana Rafter and I appear for the employer
interests today. Are you able to hear me all right?‑‑‑Yes,
I can hear you all right.
PN14016
Excellent.
I'm just going to ask you some questions about your statement that you've filed
in these proceedings?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14017
Do
you have a copy of that in front of you?‑‑‑That I do.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14018
I
understand you are a maintenance tradesperson at Bundaleer?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14019
And
you have been working with Bundaleer since September 2019 to now?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14020
So
about two and a-half years or so?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14021
I
understand that Bundaleer is your first job in aged care?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14022
When
you commenced work with Bundaleer, were you required to have a trade
qualification?‑‑‑In the job ad it did state that they needed
a qualified electrician.
PN14023
But
then on your position statement, it just notes that as a desirable feature of
the role but not a mandatory aspect?‑‑‑Yes. Yes, I
don't - that's paperwork for the admin side of things.
PN14024
No
worries. Can I take you to paragraph 12 of your statement, where you set
out your qualifications?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14025
I
understand you're a licensed electrician?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14026
To
get your licence as an electrician, what qualifications did you need to obtain
as a first step?‑‑‑I did an apprenticeship in the electrical
trades, and that started with the railways, and then I completed with the
electrical contractor after that and I applied to New South Wales Fair Work
with all my qualifications and got my electrical licence.
PN14027
Are
those the qualifications listed at 12, so your Electrical Fitter/Mechanic Trade
Certificate?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14028
At
that time, to get the licence, did you also have your Certificate II in
Telecommunications Cabling, or was that something you did afterwards?‑‑‑That's
afterwards and that's an additional licence to work on all the telephones and
computer data and all that sort of stuff.
PN14029
Is
it the case for the Telecommunications Open Registration (Telecommunications
licence) that, again, that's a separate qualification as well?‑‑‑That
is correct.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14030
Thank
you for that. Now I would like to ask you some questions about your
employment which is referred to in paragraph 11 of your statement. You
mention you did your apprenticeship with the railways in 1996 to 1998?‑‑‑Correct.
PN14031
Then
you state that you were a maintenance electrician for various companies between
1998 to 2007?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14032
Without
asking you to name the different companies, I just wanted to get a picture of
your experience. Could you identify some of the industries that you've
worked in, if they're different or if they were the same?‑‑‑Yes,
I finished off my apprenticeship with a local electrical company based out at
Penrith, and then I left there and I worked for places like Wrigleys, Tooheys,
Australia Post and all of those sorts of companies.
PN14033
Working
for those different companies, would you be working on site at Australia Post
or with Tooheys, or would you be stationed at an office and go in as needed?‑‑‑No,
all on site.
PN14034
All
on site. So you have been exposed to a lot of different areas, I take it,
different industries, different businesses?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14035
And
work of a whole host of different people?‑‑‑Yes, I have.
PN14036
If
we go with Australia Post for a second, if you're doing electrical work as
required for them would you typically try to fit it in around their timetables
to minimise disruption?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14037
And
is that typical in all of the different industries, different companies?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14038
And
obviously with an exception, if there's an emergency do the work then and there?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14039
Thank
you for that. It's good to get a picture of that, very helpful. I'd
now like to go to Bundaleer. So you set out the site at around paragraphs
7 and 8 of your statement, and earlier you said there's 76 independent living
units on the Cameron Street part of Bundaleer?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14040
And
there's also the Cameron facility, which is the residential care facility, and
that's onsite as well?‑‑‑Yes, it is.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14041
And
then there's another site at Johnston Street but that's no longer operating as
a residential care facility?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14042
I
believe you say it shut down around May 2021?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14043
Or
August 2021. Now, with the independent living and retirement aspect of
Bundaleer, do you do any maintenance work for them or for that aspect of
Bundaleer, or is your work limited to the aged care facilities?‑‑‑No,
I work across every site of the Bundaleer and that includes both the
independent living units and the aged care facility.
PN14044
Now,
I'd like to ask a question, and if it's an unfair question, do let me know, but
are you able to give an indication of the percentage of work you would be doing
for the independent units versus the residential facilities in a week?‑‑‑In
a week, I think about 20 per cent is the independent living units. I
spend about 80 per cent on the care home.
PN14045
Eighty
per cent on the care home. Thank you very much. Now, I'd just like
to confirm my understanding of the chain of command at Bundaleer as well.
So, I understand at the top we have the CEO of Bundaleer, then we have the
maintenance manager that manages and supervises the maintenance team?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14046
And
that would be your direct report. You would communicate regularly with
the manager?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14047
And
your team, the maintenance team, consists of yourself as the maintenance
tradesperson, a gardener, a lawn mower, a general hand, and a plumber?‑‑‑That
I correct.
PN14048
Excellent.
Now, if I turn to - I might take you to paragraph 34 of your statement as some
of my questions I might direct you to there. Now, at 34 - apologies, at
35, I withdraw 34. So, at 35 you state that the manager organises the
workflow for the team, and - yes, and that the manager allocates you jobs?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14049
And
is it correct that the manager would allocate jobs for each member of the
maintenance team?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14050
Now,
are these jobs all allocated via the Hardcat system?‑‑‑That
is correct.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14051
And
my understanding of the Hardcat system, as it is, that it's a digital system
and it assists with asset maintenance and it's a place where effectively you
can see all the jobs that are logged?‑‑‑Yes, that's correct.
PN14052
Do
you access it via an app on your phone or a website?‑‑‑Both.
PN14053
Both,
excellent. And on the Hardcats system if you're in the app, are you able
to see all the jobs listed, but also see the jobs that are simply allocated for
you?‑‑‑Yes, I can.
PN14054
So
there's a way of organising. Are you also able to see jobs organised by
location?‑‑‑Yes, we can.
PN14055
And
is that location by Cameron Street and Johnson Street or is it by rooms and
location throughout the facility?‑‑‑It's facility and then we
get which room we have to - it's located to. We can also see every
individual assets as well.
PN14056
And
my understanding is that the manager - so, they allocate all of the jobs for
each of the team members through Hardcat, and so if the - just to give an
example of different jobs that the manager might put into Hardcat, if the
manager is alerted to a resident's sink in their ensuite is not working, so the
mixer tap is just not functioning right, that would be a type of job that he or
she would enter into the Hardcat system and allocate to the plumber member of
your team?‑‑‑Yes, that'd be correct.
PN14057
And
then to choose a very simple example, if there was a light that had blown and
needed to be replaced, the manager would put that into Hardcat and allocate it
to you to sort out?‑‑‑Yes, he would.
PN14058
Excellent.
Now, at 36 you talk about how the manager - the receptionist initially
logs the job into Hardcat, is that simply to create the - is that the manager
has described the job that he wants logged into Hardcat, and she or he simply
creates the entry into Hardcat?‑‑‑The actual job is actually
noted on a piece of paper which is logged on by the receptionist, and then the
maintenance manager reviews that request and then logs in and allocates the
jobs.
PN14059
So,
I might walk you - unpack that a bit. So, it's handed on a piece of paper
to the receptionist first?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14060
A
job request. Who creates this initial written job request?‑‑‑Any
staff member.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14061
So,
that can be the care workers, the registered nurses, members of your team?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14062
Okay.
So, the first thing is - so, if you identify a job that needs to be done, it
has to get into the system on Hardcat so you write it on a piece of paper,
provide it to the receptionist, she would then enter it into Hardcat?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14063
And
that's the initial step. And you note that she puts in the date, the
urgency and timeframe?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14064
Was
that something that would be indicated on that request form or is she just
putting in the figures there?‑‑‑No, it's not indicated on the
request form, it's basically the maintenance manager actually allocates the
time period for it as the need of what he deems is urgent or not.
PN14065
So,
once these jobs, if they're allocated on Hardcat the manager has the final say
on determining and the manager is responsible for setting the urgency of these
jobs?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14066
Thank
you for that. Thank you for clarifying, that's all very helpful.
Now, with checking the work with the workflow, which I mentioned - that you
mentioned the manager organises, is organising workflow simply determining the
allocation of jobs, or how does the manager organise workflow?‑‑‑Well,
I'm not really the manager, so it's a bit hard to tell you what goes through
his head, but it's basically the - you know, anything that comes up
urgently. I'll give you an example, something urgent, it might be a
broken bed, you know, if the beds don't go up or down the carers can't perform
their work in a safe manner, or lighting where a resident mightn't be able to
see, and so they need the lighting so they don't fall over or trip over
something because they can't see, things like that.
PN14067
So,
the manager sees the nature of the jobs and is making all of these
determinations about what's the urgency there?‑‑‑Yes, he is.
PN14068
Excellent.
And that might be informed by the nature of the job which you just gave an
example of?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14069
Now,
if I can turn to your duties, at paragraph 16, I believe that's where you start
with your duties, you state that the first thing you do on arrival is look at
the allocated job list. I take it that's what we've just been talking
about, which is on Hardcat?‑‑‑Yes, that is correct.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14070
Thank
you for that. And via Hardcat you can check the urgency that we also just
discussed, which will be confirmed by the manager?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14071
And
if there is a priority matter you would turn your attention to that in
accordance with the priority that's listed. So high priority has to be
done today, you would attend to that, make sure that's done that day?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14072
Is
there a typical amount of jobs you tend to have per day, or does it change day
to day?‑‑‑It changes day to day into whatever breaks down or
is needed. You know, something like we can be hanging up pictures for a
resident in their room to make it more homely.
PN14073
Yes?‑‑‑You
know, to - like I said before, a broken bed, you know, they don't have set
times or anything like that.
PN14074
So,
I take it that's where the urgency is confirmed by the manager assist, so that
you know that you have limited hours in the day, these are the jobs that have
to be done today, and the others, there's a bit of wriggle room of when you can
- - -?‑‑‑It can be like that, yes.
PN14075
Thank
you?‑‑‑And then we've had days where it's just been urgent
jobs all day and we've been flat out.
PN14076
You
talk about the preventative maintenance jobs, and I take it these are the ones
that these are the - you refer to quarterly checks, so these are regularly
scheduled maintenance that have to be done, have to be checked on a regular
basis and are eventually audited?‑‑‑That is - - -
PN14077
Or
may be subject - I should say may be subject to auditing?‑‑‑Yes,
things like wheelchairs, wheelie walkers, make sure the brakes work because,
yes, again, you know, to stop any residents from falling over or getting hurt
due to faulty equipment.
PN14078
If
we take the example of a resident's wheelchair and you're doing the check, so I
take it the first step is you will see that that check is noted on Hardcat and
that that check needs to be done today?‑‑‑Yes, that is
correct.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14079
Then
you would go to the wheelchair and check all of its functionality, check its
tyres, check that it's not a danger to the resident due to a fault with the
asset?‑‑‑That's correct.
PN14080
If
it was damaged beyond repair, say the wheel was completely dented, there was no
way of fixing this by a simple repair, is that the case where you would contact
the manager to seek approval to order a new part?‑‑‑Well,
first we check our stock levels and then, if we do have another wheelchair, we
would go and fetch it for them and actually replace that chair and then we'd
take the broken chair and take it out of service and do all the paperwork for
it that way.
PN14081
I
see. So, the first step is that this chair is not fit for - you discover
the chair is not fit for the resident, so we organise for a replacement chair,
if there is one available in stock?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14082
Then,
with the chair that's faulty, you then separately try to, or see - I withdraw
that. You then separately organise to repair or organise a replacement
for that part of that wheelchair?‑‑‑Yes, yes, repair or
replace, that's correct.
PN14083
Repair
or replace. Thank you. With each of those steps that you did, would
that all then be recorded for that against that job entry on Hardcat?‑‑‑Yes,
it would.
PN14084
Excellent.
I would now like to take you to another example at paragraph 20 where you talk
about the example of the air-con system not working?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14085
In
a similar fashion, you would be alerted to this job by the entry put into
Hardcat?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14086
You
would then, seeing that job, go to the air-con system to check on its
functionality, and you refer to doing a basic power reset?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14087
If
it's still not operational after that test, that's when you contact the manager
to organise approval for a contractor?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14088
I
should unpack that. Approval to go and contact a contractor?‑‑‑Yes
- - -
PN14089
And
then the next - sorry, I cut you off?‑‑‑Yes. No, I was
just agreeing.
PN14090
Then,
once you have got that initial approval, you then would contact a contractor to
obtain a quote?‑‑‑Yes, if it needed replacing.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14091
Yes,
if it needed replacing, you would do that. And if you had a preferred
contractor, you would go to that preferred contractor, otherwise you might have
to look around for a different contractor?‑‑‑Yes, yes, we
have preferred contractors who have gone through all their police checks and
all their inductions into the care home.
PN14092
Can
I understand if it's a new contractor that's never been in the care home
before, you would notify the manager of this and the manager would then do a
site induction with this contractor?‑‑‑Yes, he would.
PN14093
He
would also ensure that that contractor has the appropriate licences?‑‑‑Appropriate
licences, yes, correct.
PN14094
Before
commencing the work?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14095
With
this site induction, were you required to do a site induction when you joined
Bundaleer?‑‑‑Yes, we did a staff one, which is slightly
different to a contractor one.
PN14096
Are
you familiar with the contractor site induction?‑‑‑No.
PN14097
I
won't ask you about it then, that's unfair. The manager manages what he's
doing, that's fine. Now, if I could take you to paragraphs 24 to 27, this
is where you're talking about the health and safety assessment?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14098
At
24, you say this is done before you start a job?‑‑‑That is
correct.
PN14099
Is
it correct that it's done before every single job?‑‑‑That is
correct.
PN14100
So
whether it be changing a light bulb in a room or attending to the air-con
system, this process has to be completed?‑‑‑Yes, it does.
PN14101
I
see at EB01 you attach the job hazard analysis worksheet?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14102
You
also refer to the first step before that, which is the work method statement?‑‑‑Yes.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14103
That
work method statement is prepared by the manager and lists all the steps that
are anticipated to be done in that job?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14104
The
manager might ask you about the steps that are involved as well to complete
that statement?‑‑‑Yes, he does.
PN14105
Is
this all done on hard copy pieces of paper or is this done electronically on
the computer?‑‑‑At the moment, Bundaleer's changing over to
using a digital version under - I think it's enableHR.
PN14106
If
it's not quite digital yet, it's in the process of getting there?‑‑‑That
is in - yes.
PN14107
No
worries. Currently it's still in this paper format?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14108
The
main thing I wanted to see is it's different, it's not included in the Hardcat,
a completely different process we're doing here?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14109
Is
this done before the job is allocated in Hardcat or after the job is allocated
in Hardcat?‑‑‑Most of the, as we call them, SWMS are just a
basic set of instructions that cover all - any jobs there. It's basically
like driving a car, it's like your road user manual, you know, that's your
basic set of rules, instructions on the roads, whereas actually driving the
car, you know, you're constantly changing things, you know, like other cars
around, so, you know, trying to avoid. That's the best analogy I can put
to it for you.
PN14110
With
these documents, does that mean there are some templates of these documents, if
I can use that word, for particular jobs that may be done routinely?‑‑‑Yes,
there is.
PN14111
Okay?‑‑‑Like,
for instance, changing a light, you know, it's basically, you know, go there,
see it, get all equipment, make sure your ladder's set up in a safe place,
you're not going to be in the way of any residents for them to fall over.
We isolate the circuit, lock out, tag out, you know, because safety first,
change the light globe, and then it's pretty much the reverse order back out.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14112
With
these, you refer to it as similar to SWMS. Is it a quick process filling
out these documents? I shouldn't say - I withdraw 'quick'. How long
do you typically spend creating these documents?‑‑‑Well, the
SWMS take a little bit longer to do. Something that doesn't actually have
a SWM, that's where this job hazard analysis form would come in, and they can
take anywhere from five minutes to 15 minutes, depending on the job.
PN14113
Just
so I can make sure I have it right in my process, you have the electronic
record on the Hardcat of the job that's to be done?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14114
Then
this physical documentation of the work method statement and the job hazard
analysis also has to be done before you commence that work on that job?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14115
These
documents, would they be provided to the manager?‑‑‑They are
provided to the manager once they are completed and they get scanned in and
archived.
PN14116
Do
you need the manager to confirm receipt and approval of these documents before
you start the job?‑‑‑For the SWMS, yes, for the JHA, no.
PN14117
So,
as long as the job - the JHA need not be completed before you start the job?‑‑‑No,
the JHA must be done before the job.
PN14118
Must
be done but it need not be approved by the manager before you start the job?‑‑‑No,
it doesn't need to be approved by the manager.
PN14119
Excellent.
It just has to be done first and then that document goes to the manager for
filing and ‑ ‑ ‑?‑‑‑That is
correct.
PN14120
Thank
you for that. Thank you for talking me through that process. And if
I can take you to paragraph 29 where you talk about - you give an example of
seeing a loose paver?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14121
Is
it the case that the protocol you set out is that you have spotted the hazard,
which is the paver, that you move to solve the problem by either putting up
bollards around so that no one trips, and then you contact the manager that
this hazards exists?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14122
Then
it's up to the manager then to decide what change needs to take place to fix
that hazard?‑‑‑Yes.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14123
And
is that consistent with your WHS training?‑‑‑It's - well, if
you can't fix it straightaway, well, it needs to be, you know, cordoned off so
no resident will trip over and hurt themselves, and then if maintenance can't
fix it right there and then, then a WHS form has to go in, it goes to the WHS
committee, may need contractors in to actually rectify the problem, and the
process starts off getting quotes and getting approval. Then the
maintenance manager needs to get approval higher up, and stuff like that.
PN14124
Right,
thank you for that. So, I understand the process at Bundaleer then is
that if you see a hazard and you're able to fix the hazard then and there, that
falls within your responsibility, and you're to do that?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14125
As
that is then a new job of sorts, would that then need to also be recorded
ultimately into Hardcat, or is that an incident report?‑‑‑Ninety
per cent of the times it is added into Hardcat, because Hardcat is also used
for our time in motion studies and all that too.
PN14126
Yes.
And if it was a serious incident that would take time to - that you were unable
to repair, you then talked about how there's another protocol in which it may -
a WHS form may need to be completed, and it needs to be considered potentially
by the WHS committee, so a different team ‑ ‑ ‑?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14127
‑ ‑ ‑to
your team?‑‑‑Yes, that's correct.
PN14128
Thank
you. If I can take you to paragraph 51 of your statement, here you talk
about testing and tagging all of the appliances to make sure ‑ ‑ ‑?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14129
‑ ‑ ‑they're
compliant. I take it to do this do you have a portable appliance tester?‑‑‑Yes,
I do.
PN14130
Excellent.
So, you're going there actually testing the power usage of the device and
recording that?‑‑‑No, it actually tests for earthing,
insulation resistance, and to make sure that if a resident or a staff member
uses such appliance that they won't get electrocuted from it.
PN14131
Thank
you for confirming that. And earlier you referred to assets. Is it
the case that all of these appliances are barcoded?‑‑‑All the
ones that belong to Bundaleer are, yes.
PN14132
Barcoded.
And are those then logged into Hardcat as assets as well?‑‑‑They
are.
PN14133
So,
is it the case that you can, say, scan one of the barcodes and you can see then
a record of the tests that have been done on Hardcat for that asset?‑‑‑And
any other jobs that fall to that asset as well.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14134
So,
if it's an electrical bed, but do stop me if that's one that wouldn't count as
an asset, but if it's an electrical bed and it had a fault, and a contractor
was organised to come in and look at it, if I scan the barcode that would come
up?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14135
Excellent.
And I take it that's useful for when, if you get audited, if an auditor asks
about a particular asset you can easily pull up the record for that asset of
every test and check?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14136
Thank
you for that. And you state at paragraph 52 that the manager is the main
person for completing the documents for accreditation. And don't answer
this if you're not sure, are you aware of the documents that the manager is
responsible for completing?‑‑‑No, I do not know.
PN14137
That's
perfectly fine. Now, I'll go to 52 where you talk about the documentation
you do, which is to check that you performed all your duties in relation to
accreditation on the computer. Is that again, and I appreciate I'm asking
this a lot, is that documentation on the computer separate to Hardcat or is it
one and the same?‑‑‑No, it's - there are a few different
forms which have been set out for accreditation and need to be filled out in
certain ways, and then we fill the forms out and then give them back to the
maintenance manager for filing.
PN14138
Excellent.
Does the manager have to sign off on the document or review the document?‑‑‑No,
well, he probably looks at it and then files it into the appropriate spot.
PN14139
I
take it, as you say 'probably' that's a matter for the manager?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14140
You
don't want to speak to what he's doing, that's fine. And as to the
audits, and I note at 53 you mention that the auditor visits. In your 2.5
years with Bundaleer, can you recall how many audits have taken place?‑‑‑I
think the Aged Care Commission have come in, that's, what, three times.
PN14141
Three
times. Were you present for each of those audits?‑‑‑Yes,
I was still performing work around, and all staff were notified that they were
onsite, and they can stop us at any time and ask us questions at any time.
PN14142
Were
you stopped on any of those visits?‑‑‑Yes, a couple of times.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14143
Couple
of times. So, once on each - on a couple of those audits. And how
long - I note you list a couple of questions, how long did the auditor spend with
you on those occasions?‑‑‑It'd depend on what they wanted to
know. I think one time was a quick five minute one, and another one it
ended up being about 20 minutes.
PN14144
Thank
you for that. Now, at paragraph 56 to 58, thereabouts, you talk about
doing the service for the assisted mobility technology and the mobility aids?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14145
If
I can take an example just to give context of the electric bed, for the service
is that where you undertake to check the complete functionality of the electric
bed?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14146
And
so you'd be checking that the remote works, and every single control and
function works without issue?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14147
Is
that the entirety of the service that you do, or is there more to it?‑‑‑No,
that's the - we go in, we check, make sure the bed does all - everything it was
purchased to do. I think there's - and we also check for any wear spots.
PN14148
Yes.
And I take it each of that is then noted against the asset on Hardcat?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14149
If
there was an issue with that asset, would you then contact the manager as well
if you viewed that and a contractor needed to come and look at it?‑‑‑Yes,
if there's a problem with the said asset, we would contact our manager.
Depending on what it is, he would then raise the job under the Hardcat system,
and then if an outside contractor needed to come in, you know, it would be
organised, or if we can fix it, we fix it and log the time and parts and all
that to the Hardcat system.
PN14150
Thank
you for that. Now, I note you say that prior to coming to Bundaleer you
hadn't done certain services before, so would an example of one of those
services be, say, changing a flat tyre on a mobility scooter?‑‑‑I'm
sorry, can you repeat that question?
PN14151
You
refer to maintaining the mobility aids, and one of them is a mobility scooter
and that you may change tyres if they're flat, and then, at 58, you say:
PN14152
I
did not know how to do these services before starting at Bundaleer.
PN14153
?‑‑‑No.
Yes, that is correct.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14154
I
was just trying to give an example?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14155
So,
with a mobility scooter, you wouldn't have known how to do that before coming
to the job?‑‑‑No.
PN14156
And
you have learnt on the job how to do it?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14157
Would
you tell me how you learnt how to change the tyre of a mobility scooter?‑‑‑Well,
first things first, we look at the scooter. I've had a lot of like motor
experience, so, you know, you've really got to look at the whole thing.
Some of it has been trial and error, unfortunately, but that's the same as
anything. If I got really stuck, I would seek help from my other team
members.
PN14158
Yes,
thank you for that. I may have cut you off?‑‑‑No, no,
that's fine.
PN14159
I
will just ask you a couple more questions. At paragraph 30, you talk
about having constant contact with the carers, nurses and the receptionists,
that you relay information to them that they need to know, or seek
clarification?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14160
To
confirm my understanding, I thought I'd run some examples by you. Would
an example of information you may relay to a carer concern a job you might be
doing in a resident's room?‑‑‑Yes, 90 per cent of the time,
yes.
PN14161
Some
information you may relay to the registered nurse, would an example be if you
had done work on the care buzzer or - - -?‑‑‑The
nurse call system.
PN14162
The
nurse call system - apologies - the buzzer?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14163
You
had a job and you fixed it. Is that the type of thing you would then let
the nurse know that it's been fixed and is functional now?‑‑‑Yes,
with the RNs, it would be the nurse call system, anything to do with any like
lifters or medical equipment that we may have to service as well, that they are
operational again.
PN14164
You
let them know that that work's been done?‑‑‑Yes.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14165
With
the receptionist, what's the type of information you would be communicating;
what type of information would you be relaying to the receptionist?‑‑‑A
lot of time it's with the phone systems because the receptionist takes calls
and, you know, moves calls on, or, if there's a problem with them and I go and
attend to fix them. That's one thing.
PN14166
You
keep her or him informed about what's happened with this issue?‑‑‑Yes,
or - - -
PN14167
And
now - sorry?‑‑‑Sorry. Or I might need to seek more
clarification as to the problem that's there because, you know, you can only
put so much in a little title, so actually talking to them, you get a bigger
picture of the actual problem.
PN14168
So
if a job is logged and you note that the initial request is likely from
reception or a carer, you may ask follow-up questions to get a little bit more
detail about the problem or the job that needs to be done?‑‑‑That's
correct.
PN14169
Thank
you very much. Just to go through some questions about your interaction
with the residents, at 38, you note that you are conscious of the fact that you
are working in the homes of residents and, as such, you don't proceed to
complete a job in a resident's room without first letting that resident know or
perhaps contacting the carer as well?‑‑‑Well, under the Aged
Care Standards, the resident's room is their home. You know, you wouldn't
go to someone's house and just walk into it, would you?
PN14170
Yes?‑‑‑So,
we've all been instructed that, you know, we knock, we ask for permission,
state why you're there, or if they're not in their room, we have to go and find
the resident.
PN14171
Yes?‑‑‑And
seek permission to enter their room.
PN14172
At
40, you note that, as you respect their home at 38, you are always respectful
to the residents as well throughout when you're walking between jobs. So,
if a resident - I believe you refer to one that's in a wheelchair
- - -?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14173
- - -
and his passage is unintentionally slowing you down a little bit, that you are
respectful of him and take that opportunity to have a chat with him as you make
your way from A to B?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14174
At
41, you also talk about how you would avoid using complicated jargon or jargon
that a resident might not understand, like an LED light. So, if you were
coming to fix a light, you'd just tell them, 'I'm coming to fix your light
today'?‑‑‑Yes.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14175
You
don't need to give them all of the details about the bulb type and the voltage?‑‑‑That's
correct.
PN14176
Excellent.
At 49, you also talk about if you happen to know a little bit about their
background or their interests and that's also an area of crossover, say, with
your interests, you might engage in a bit of small chat about that with them as
well whilst you're doing a job?‑‑‑Well, yes, getting to know
some of the residents and some of their interests, it's easier to have a
conversation with them. You know, it sometimes can settle them down if
they're slightly agitated, or just, you know, it's just so it doesn't - you
know, you don't just come in, do the job and walk out and not say
anything. You know that's a bit rude.
PN14177
I
note, at 43, you refer to a resident that you describe as a frequent hitter?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14178
If
you know that a resident may have a particular - with that particular resident
- I will rephrase that. Would that then be included on your job hazard
analysis that the resident has in the past been a frequent hitter?‑‑‑If
there was a job in that resident's room, yes, it would, and it's been brought
up with the maintenance manager and it's been in consultation with the
maintenance manager and the RNs that whenever we go into this resident's room,
we're to have a second person, normally a carer, just so we can get in, get the
work done and then get out so as not to agitate them any more than needed.
PN14179
On
your job hazard analysis, the hazard is that this resident has been identified
as a frequent hitter or potentially has that problem, and then the control
that's being put in place is that a second person has to be in the room if a
job is being done in that resident's room, and that might be a carer or it
might be a nurse?‑‑‑Yes, that's correct.
PN14180
Thank
you for that. I note, at 44, you talk about another incident where a
resident - you were doing work and you had a bollard up that a resident ignored
or pushed through the bollard with her walker and thrust her walker at you in
the process and, at that time, you called out for the EN?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14181
And
the EN came and assisted?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14182
Is
that the type of incident that you would then report to your maintenance
manager as well?‑‑‑Yes, I did.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14183
Would
you also have to report it to the clinical care coordinator or manager?‑‑‑Well,
my maintenance manager then reported it up through the system.
PN14184
Okay.
So, you go to your direct report and then it's up to him where he takes that
matter?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14185
Excellent.
Thank you for that. At paragraph 45 - this is just for clarification -
you talk about how, 'Management always tells us to refer to the iCare
program.' I see that you also state you don't have access to it.
But my question concerns which management are you referring to? Is that
your maintenance manager, is that another manager?‑‑‑That's
usually, yes, usually another manager.
PN14186
Just
for clarity, in which department would that manager be in?‑‑‑Under
the clinical side of things.
PN14187
The
clinical side?‑‑‑Yes, like a clinical manager.
PN14188
Have
you raised with them that you're unable to access the iCare program?‑‑‑Yes,
I have, numerous times.
PN14189
I
take it this issue just is unresolved?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14190
One
last question. At 62, you talk about some directions that were given
during the COVID outbreak at the home. You say the measures included you
were required to limit your movements through the home, you had to wear full
PPE. I take it that was a temporary safety precaution to limit spread
throughout that facility?‑‑‑That is correct.
PN14191
So,
if there's no outbreak, that direction would not be in place, say, now?‑‑‑That
is correct.
PN14192
Thank
you, Mr Basciuk, no further questions from me.
PN14193
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: Thank you. Mr McKenna, is there anything from you?
PN14194
MR
MCKENNA: No. Thank you, Commissioner.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK XXN
MS RAFTER
PN14195
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: All right. Any re-examination, Mr Gibian?
RE-EXAMINATION
BY MR GIBIAN [9.48 AM]
PN14196
MR
GIBIAN: There were just a couple of things.
PN14197
Mr
Basciuk, can you hear me again?‑‑‑Yes, I can.
PN14198
You
were asked some questions about the Hardcat system, and in one of the answers
you indicated that the information from the Hardcat system is used for your
time in motion studies, do you recall saying that?‑‑‑Yes, I
do.
PN14199
What
was that a reference to?‑‑‑It's just the logging what hours
we worked during the day. It's probably a HR thing or an upper management
thing just to know whether - you know, it's whether we're working efficiently
probably.
PN14200
Maybe
you've just answered it, but I was going to ask do you know what that
information is used for?‑‑‑Yes, it's also that, and the other
thing they actually use it for is our performance reviews.
PN14201
You
were then asked some questions about the visits by the auditors from the Aged
Care Quality and Safety Commission, and I think you said that you'd spoken to
them at least on two occasions, one for a shorter five minute period, and
another for a 20 minute or so period?‑‑‑Yes.
PN14202
What
types of things did they ask you about?‑‑‑The five minute one
was to ask if I knew where all the COVID outbreak equipment was. And I
answered that, you know, swiftly and that. And the 20 minute one was when
they asked about, you know, if there's a certain job what's the process of it
logging through to completion, which is what we've just been through.
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK RXN
MR GIBIAN
PN14203
And,
lastly, you were asked about going into the homes of residents, and you
referred to your understanding of the requirements of the aged care standards
in terms of the manner in which you treat the resident's room as their home,
and referred to instruction that you've received in relation to that
matter. Earlier on in your statement at paragraph 32 there's a list of a
number of different types of training, and I think on page 5(m) there's a reference
to the Aged Care Quality and Safety Standards as being a matter that was
subject of training that you'd received. What did that training involve?‑‑‑That
was a bridge course which we did on the computer. That training ran - we
had to watch a video which stated the whole eight standards and what they are
and what was expected of us. And after we watched that video we had to
answer questions afterwards and get a certain pass mark.
PN14204
Thank
you, Mr Basciuk, that's the re-examination.
PN14205
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: Mr Basciuk, thanks very much for your evidence this
morning. You're excused and free to go?‑‑‑Thank you,
Commissioner.
<THE
WITNESS WITHDREW [9.51
AM]
PN14206
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: So unless there's anything further, we will adjourn.
PN14207
MR
MCKENNA: Thank you, Commissioner.
PN14208
COMMISSIONER
O'NEILL: Thank you.
PN14209
MS
RAFTER: If the Commission pleases.
ADJOURNED
INDEFINITELY [9.51
AM]
*** EUGENE IAN BASCIUK RXN
MR GIBIAN
LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND
MFIs
EUGENE
IAN BASCIUK, AFFIRMED......................................................... PN14000
EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF
BY MR GIBIAN.............................................. PN14000
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MS RAFTER.................................................. PN14014
RE-EXAMINATION
BY MR GIBIAN........................................................... PN14195
THE
WITNESS WITHDREW......................................................................... PN14205
