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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
Fair Work Act 2009                                                    

 

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER

DEPUTY PRESIDENT YOUNG

COMMISSIONER LEE

 

s.604 - Appeal of decisions

 

Appeal by Piefke

(C2022/2126)

 

Sydney

 

3.30 PM, MONDAY, 6 JUNE 2022


PN1          

THE ASSOCIATE:  Parties, I confirm the Full Bench has joined the hearing.  Parties, can I confirm that you can see and hear me okay?

PN2          

MR ZIELINSKI:  Yes, I can.

PN3          

MR PIEFKE:  Yes, thank you.

PN4          

THE ASSOCIATE:  Thank you.  Deputy President Young, can you see and hear me okay?

PN5          

DEPUTY PRESIDENT YOUNG:  Yes, I can, thank you.

PN6          

THE ASSOCIATE:  Thank you.  Commissioner, Lee, can you see and hear me okay?

PN7          

COMMISSIONER LEE:  Yes, I can.

PN8          

THE ASSOCIATE:  Thank you.  The Fair Work Commission is now in session.  This is a section 604 hearing between Jeffrey Piefke and Rio Tinto, matter C2126/2022, a permission to appeal hearing.

PN9          

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  I'll take the appearances.  Mr Piefke, you appear on your own behalf?

PN10        

MR PIEFKE:  Yes, I asked the question.  I've got live duties under AMSA law to go out at 1400 into live operations.  Under my duty of care, for the health of myself and others, I haven't got the weight or the time.  I've tried to tell the Commission that I've got responsibilities as – under AMSA law.  I've got to go to sea, I'm dressed to go to sea.  I've got to run a tug.  Now, I've begged that under safety for myself and others that I need to postpone this hearing, I'm sorry.

PN11        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Well, I'll come back to that, Mr Piefke.  Mr Zielinski, you seek permission to appear for the respondent, correct?

PN12        

MR ZIELINSKI:  Yes, I do, Vice President.  It's Zielinski, Z-i-e-l-i-n-s-k-I, initials P M, counsel instructed by Minter Ellison.

PN13        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  We might return to the question of permission somewhat later until we deal with this preliminary issue.  Mr Piefke, first of all, you were directed to file an outline of your written submissions which you've failed to comply with, notwithstanding a number of reminders.  Why is that?

PN14        

MR PIEFKE:  Because all submissions have been submitted over the last three years to .gov.au on many occasions.  From ANSA, Freedom of Information.  I've been to the Fair Work Commission three times under Commission Williams, which is why we're here.  Now, all the submissions have been submitted constantly until I ended up in the Federal Court.  Now, if you don't understand your own held submission under AMSA law, duty of care, what do we understand?  It's their own submissions;  not mine.

PN15        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  All right.

PN16        

MR PIEFKE:  I don't understand, yes.

PN17        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke, in the decision which you've appealed, the decision of Commissioner Williams - - -

PN18        

MR PIEFKE:  Yes.

PN19        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  - - - the issue was that you filed an unfair dismissal application in which you allege you'd been dismissed by Rio Tinto.

PN20        

MR PIEFKE:  No, no, no, no, no.  That wasn't – I was sanctioned.  I was sanctioned and I don't know why.

PN21        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay.

PN22        

MR PIEFKE:  That was under – I went to work, under Rio Tinto, I was on their vessel.  They short-listed me for two jobs, for the same job I lost in go – I was working on three different Rio Tinto sites and all of a sudden I've been sanctioned with no underlying evidence.

PN23        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Right.

PN24        

MR PIEFKE:  So I was on board their vessel.  I was on board, operating it, and then I got a phone call the next saying, 'No, you're not allowed on here', and they said, 'Well, ask Rio Tinto.'  I've asked Rio Tinto and they won't submit their - - -

PN25        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  All right.  Mr Piefke - - -

PN26        

MR PIEFKE:  You know - - -

PN27        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke, is this the case that you accept that you were not employed by Rio Tinto?

PN28        

MR PIEFKE:  No, but that's right because you have a look here, your Honour, my employment contract is not signed.  So Mr Quinn was employing me, that I was working with Rio Tinto until 31/1/2019.  I wasn't even working for Rio Tinto.  I was working for Pacific Aluminium which they have trouble submitting to Work Safe.

PN29        

So Work Safe was under the impression I work as a mechanical fitter when I'm a tug engineer working for Pacific Aluminium.  And even if I was working for Rio Tinto as Mr Quinn openly admitted, my contract's not signed.  So who was I working for?  They can't even tell you.  Ask them yes or no, who was I working for.  Pacific Aluminium or Rio Tinto.

PN30        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke.

PN31        

MR PIEFKE:  A yes or no will do.

PN32        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke, this will be easier - - -

PN33        

MR PIEFKE:  Yes.

PN34        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  - - - if you just let me ask the question and stop interrupting me, please.  Okay.

PN35        

MR PIEFKE:  Yes.

PN36        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  So you lodged an unfair dismissal application claiming that Rio Tinto was your employer and dismissed you on 22 December 2021.  Correct?

PN37        

MR PIEFKE:  No, I was sanctioned.  Where else do you go for a sanction?

PN38        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay.

PN39        

MR PIEFKE:  How do you go to the Fair Work Commission integrity team to find out why you were sanctioned.

PN40        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay.

PN41        

MR PIEFKE:  And then you find out you're not even working for them.  This is systemically connected since the 31st, those four bullies bullied me and my family clean out the door after 28 years' service on quantum reports that weren't submitted, data reports where I was in an unsafe environment of their own submissions.  Not mine.  I was trying to protect myself and others as – not Commissioner, as Lucev J instructed.  I was systemically bullied for trying to protect myself and others.  Now, it's all systemically connected.  For the last three years, and I've been to the Fair Work Commission four times for the same subject matter and here we go and Rio just sweep it under the carpet like it didn't happen.

PN42        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke, do you accept that Rio Tinto was not your employer as at 22 December 2021?

PN43        

MR PIEFKE:  Yes, I didn't have a contract.  I didn't sign a contract so, yes, you're correct.  I wasn't working for anyone or Rio ever for the last 20 – for the last 15 years because the contract is not signed.

PN44        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Well - - -

PN45        

MR PIEFKE:  So, yes, and then they don't even know that my contract wasn't signed.  They sent it to me, went to Work Safe and they didn't even know what I was doing, and it wasn't signed.

PN46        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Who was your employer at that time?

PN47        

MR PIEFKE:  Pacific Aluminium.  I signed a contract with Pacific Aluminium, so Rio have got their wires crossed.  They were trying to get rid of it and trying to sell Rio Tinto because they didn't wash their hands of it.  They sent emails and everything, 'You're Pacific Aluminium now'.  So I signed that contract and here we are, Rio show up like a bunch of mugs.

PN48        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay, so - - -

PN49        

MR PIEFKE:  (Indistinct).

PN50        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  In the decision that you've appealed can we take it that the Commissioner was correct when he said that there was no evidence that you were employed by Rio Tinto in December 2021 or dismissed by them?

PN51        

MR PIEFKE:  No, I was employed by Pacific Aluminium.

PN52        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Well, what's your complaint about the decision then?

PN53        

MR PIEFKE:  Because I was sanctioned and I want to know why.  After working for them, applied for two jobs and then short-listed for the job I lost, got bullied out of, worked at Ranger Mine, worked inland for (indistinct).  Show up to the job, hop on board, quit your job, move house, and then all of a sudden I'm told sanctions.  And Advanced Marine Services said, 'Ask Rio Tinto.'  So I asked them.  What did you get?  Nothing.  So I don't know why I'm sanctioned.  For protecting myself and others?  No signing the contract and working for Pacific Aluminium?  I'm a bit confused.  But Mr Quinn can answer that, yes or no, was I working for Rio Tinto or Pacific Aluminium?  I can't be working for Rio because the contract is not signed.

PN54        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay.

PN55        

MR PIEFKE:  So don't you need to ask them?

PN56        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay.

PN57        

MR PIEFKE:  Not me, I've done nothing wrong.

PN58        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Just for my benefit, can you explain then why you filed an unfair dismissal application against Rio Tinto when you accepted that you weren't employed by them and they didn't dismiss you?

PN59        

MR PIEFKE:  They did.  It's systemically connected.  I've been to the Fair Work Commission four times.  If you can't understand their own safety submissions – they've swept me under the carpet like a dog.  And now, 'You weren't working for us.'  Well, who sanctioned me?  The man on the moon?  Who pays the bill?  Ask Mr Lyle what happened to me in Dampier when I lost my job when I went back – when I went to the Fair Work Commission the first time for stealing safety data I put in place to protect Rio Tinto and their assets and their people and myself.  And dry humped up the rear end while I was doing it.  And anybody – you tell this to a little kid, they can work it out.

PN60        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  All right.

PN61        

MR PIEFKE:  Then you go back on the track and you say, hang on, I wasn't working for Rio, I was working for Pacific Aluminium.  Ask them, not me.  Who was I working for?  I'm a bit confused.

PN62        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Who are you working for now?

PN63        

MR PIEFKE:  I can't say that because I don't want to lose my job once again.  I can't work for Rio Tinto ever again, I've been sanctioned and I want to know why.  For being safe while being dry-humped?

PN64        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  You wanted to apply for an adjournment for what purpose?

PN65        

MR PIEFKE:  I've got to go to work in 15 minutes to start up a tug.  I've got people's lives at risk and I've got pilot orders and I've got my own responsibility.  I haven't got the time and the way to carry on right now.  I've got responsibilities under AMSA law.  Under my licence to operate which is duty of care, which gives me the jurisdiction to walk straight into that office when safety is involved, especially when there's waterfall and agile data reports there showing how safe I am.

PN66        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke, if we grant you an adjournment will you be saying anything different from what you're saying today?

PN67        

MR PIEFKE:  Yes, yes, I'll be understanding the systemic bullying from 31st – 19 – all the way to the Federal Court, to the Fair Work Commission six times, all systemically connected.  And the only reason under section 12 gives me this jurisdiction is that it changes the industry, the waterfall and agile taking system.  I put it in place because I was scared and I had a problem.  It was hidden from the get-go from Work Safe.

PN68        

The quantum report, and I never seen my – laid my eyes on ever, I got it after the incident, it wasn't submitted to Work Safe, and that's Allianz insurance involved here.  Why wasn't the Quantum report – and when I read it, that's when I went to AMSA.  AMSA has got a hearing and a decision that's going to be handed down on the 22nd.  You've already got the submissions from the Freedom of Information that shows you that Rio Tinto is willing to put people's lives at risk.

PN69        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke, if we granted you an adjournment, I gather that you will not be contending in any future hearing that you were dismissed by Rio Tinto in December 2021?

PN70        

MR PIEFKE:  Well, I can't be because I was working for Pacific Aluminium.

PN71        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Yes, all right.  Is there anything else you want to say at this stage, Mr Piefke.

PN72        

MR PIEFKE:  Just be safe and don't move people and don't bully people and bring out your big pit-bulls to come and get innocent little people who have done nothing wrong.  And thanks to the indigenous and the people they hurt on (indistinct) country.  Made me ashamed in front of my people that I love, all because of Rob Macdonald, Aaron Dean, Kyle Murray, telling lies from the get-go.  And then they send these boys out to protect the bullies.  I want a commission, an integrity commission.  And let's put the truth on the table, let's put the data on the table and see who's telling porkies.  Not me.  I'm not being rude, I'm sorry, I'm just, I'm hurt.  You hurt my family.  My 16 year old has disappeared.  Are you going to bring her back, Rio?  16, she won't come home.  That's why I lived in Goh, for 28 years I lived in Goh for that reason, to get them out of this big rat race.

PN73        

SPEAKER:  The thing is that the contract wasn't signed and if you were working for Rio you'd like to know but you're trying to let them know that there was a breakdown somewhere along the lines where your contract was not signed by Rio Tinto when, in fact, you were still working under the old contract.

PN74        

MR PIEFKE:  Workplace agreement contract.

PN75        

SPEAKER:  Signed by Pacific Aluminium.  Pacific Aluminium were then taken over by Rio Tinto.

PN76        

MR PIEFKE:  And they swap their shirts when they feel like it.

PN77        

SPEAKER:  There's no signed - - -

PN78        

MR PIEFKE:  'You're back at Rio now, Jeff.'

PN79        

SPEAKER:  There's no signed contract in place to say that Jeff was working for Rio Tinto.  They used the old contract and didn't even – there'd been no signed or any visual thing form - - -

PN80        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Mr Piefke, can I just say with the greatest respect, you're the one appearing here so we're here to listen to what - - -

PN81        

MR PIEFKE:  I put my wife's name down, she's the one that's been hurt.

PN82        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay.  Is there anything - - -

PN83        

MR PIEFKE:  I put her name down.

PN84        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Is there anything else you want to say today, Mr Piefke?

PN85        

MR PIEFKE:  No, just the hearing – give me the date of the next hearing and this time I'll bring a lawyer.

PN86        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  Okay.  Look - - -

PN87        

MR PIEFKE:  I've got enough evidence.  I've got enough substantial evidence, of their own repelled evidence that they don't even understand their own safety systems.  They don't even know what I do there.  They don't even understand.

PN88        

SPEAKER:  They didn't even know that you were working there.

PN89        

MR PIEFKE:  They don't even know I was working for them.  No, it was – yes, anyway, I'm not going to go flapping down my jaws, I've got the substance, I've got the evidence, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.  So if they want to look after bullies - - -

PN90        

SPEAKER:  Yes, you were getting paid by them, you were (indistinct) - - -

PN91        

MR PIEFKE:  I recommend Lucev J to run the integrity commission because he's the only one that jumped the fence with me and crossed the red line and said I was systemically bullied pillar to post.  Now, if everyone wants to call Lucev J a liar, well, we'll see when we're in court and when then federal judge has got something to say about it.

PN92        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  All right.  We've heard from you, Mr Piefke.  Mr Zielinski, I don't think there's any purpose in use being heard – in us hearing from the respondent at this stage so we'll defer any issue about whether the respondent should be granted permission for legal representation.  I think the appropriate course now is to adjourn and we'll consider what's been put by Mr Piefke and decide - - -

PN93        

MR PIEFKE:  Is everybody communicating with these people outside my – separately, privately, will you?  Without my hearing?

PN94        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  No.

PN95        

MR PIEFKE:  So you're not going to communicate with anybody from that room there after we hang up?

PN96        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  No.

PN97        

MR PIEFKE:  Thank you for your integrity.

PN98        

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  All right.

PN99        

MR PIEFKE:  You say that - - -

PN100      

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  All right.  I think that's as far as we can take it today, so we'll now adjourn.

PN101      

MR PIEFKE:  Sorry for my (indistinct), it's frustrating on my behalf, sorry.

PN102      

VICE PRESIDENT HATCHER:  All right.  We're now adjourned.

ADJOURNED TO A DATE TO BE FIXED                                         [3.48 PM]