PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, I'll take the appearances, starting in Sydney. Mr Duncalfe, you appear for the Australian Workers Union.

PN2

MR DUNCALFE: Yes, your Honour.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Ms Soin, you appear for ABI and New South Wales Business Chamber.

PN4

MS SOIN: Yes, your Honour.

PN5

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr O'Donnell, you appear for Fitness Australia?

PN6

MR O'DONNELL: Yes, your Honour.

PN7

THE VICE PRESIDENT: In Melbourne, you appear for Gymnastics Australia, Tennis Australia and the Australian Football League. Is that right?

PN8

MS MOLONEY: That's correct.

PN9

THE VICE PRESIDENT: You can sit down by the way. Can you make sure you stay close to those microphones because your voice is a little faint. In Brisbane, Mr Taylor you appear for the Australian Swim Schools Association?

PN10

MR TAYLOR: That's correct.

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Procter, you appear for the Australian Swimming Coaches and Teachers Association.

PN12

MR PROCTER: Yes, thank you.

PN13

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Well, as I think you may be aware, in relation to these two awards there's been a referral to a separately constituted Full Bench of which I'm the presiding member of issues relating to overtime for casual employees, and as I understand it there's a subset of two issues. That is firstly do these awards currently provide for such overtime, and secondly if they do not should it provide for such overtime.

PN14

Now the parties have already made written submissions about these issues to the Commission but the purpose of today is for the parties to inform me what further opportunity, if any, they seek to either call evidence or make further submissions before the Full Bench decides the matter. I know Mr Duncalfe for the AWU had requested a hearing I think in at least one of the awards. What's the AWU's position?

PN15

MR DUNCALFE: Unfortunately, your Honour, I've not come prepared with those instructions because I've just jumped onto this one last minute. We've had some staff changes at the national office, so I'm going to take that on notice unfortunately.

PN16

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right. Well, can you get those instructions from somebody?

PN17

MR DUNCALFE: Yes.

PN18

THE VICE PRESIDENT: How long will that take?

PN19

MR DUNCALFE: I can have it with you by the end of the day.

PN20

THE VICE PRESIDENT: End of the day, all right. Can you assist us any further with the matter?

PN21

MR DUNCALFE: I can't sorry, your Honour.

PN22

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. Ms Soin?

PN23

MS SOIN: Your Honour, my instructions at this stage are just to reserve our rights but at this stage we don't have any - we don't seek to provide any further submissions.

PN24

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right, thank you. Mr O'Donnell.

PN25

MR O'DONNELL: Your Honour, our view would be certainly guided by the AWU, so until such time as we understand the manner in which they intend to put evidence on or how they intend to deal with the matter, we'll have to reserve our view.

PN26

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. We're not getting very far today. Ms Moloney.

PN27

MS MOLONEY: Yes, good morning. Our position in relation to the issue of overtime and casuals is that we have made submissions and we don't require an opportunity to make any further submissions or provide any further evidence. I had understood that this may become a bigger issue based on the document we received earlier this week and it may well be that there are - if further submissions are made we would need an opportunity to reply to them. But currently we're comfortable with the documentation we have filed in this matter.

PN28

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, Ms Moloney, you're correct in the sense that this Full Bench has also been allocated the matter with respect to a number of other awards. I'm just trying to find out whether we need to deal with these awards separately by way of evidence as distinct to this industry or whether parties are happy for us to deal with it in a general manner along with other awards.

PN29

MS MOLONEY: Yes, I had understood from the statement that was released that it would be - there was potential for it to be dealt with along with other awards and we don't have any objection to that.

PN30

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right, thank you. Mr Taylor.

PN31

MR TAYLOR: We're in a slightly different situation to other parties in as far as we've sought some discussion in relation to other issues beyond those which you've indicated this morning. We had corresponded to Clancy DP on 26 October, drawing attention to the fact that there were a range of issues relating to classifications as they impacted upon employees in swim schools and associated activities. We have sought a conference of the parties that have an interest in that. In relation to those matters which are reflected in the draft award that was circulated in October, we see there could very well be some resolution of what are basically minor drafting issues which aren't currently in the discussion drafts before the parties.

PN32

In relation to the question of overtime, and the associated issues, ASSA would rely upon the written submissions that it has already lodged with the Commission in January this year. We I think are basically in accord with Ms Moloney's situation in as far as those issues impact upon employees engaged in or about swim schools. But we are anxious if we can to pursue and clean up those outstanding issues in relation to classification descriptors.

PN33

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Mr Taylor, those issues will be staying the Full Bench of which Clancy DP is a member but I'll just liaise with him to ensure that that issue is being pursued. But I'm only concerned with the casual overtime issue and I understand your position. Mr Procter.

PN34

MR PROCTER: Thank you, Vice President. Yes, look previously we haven't had instructions to file submissions in relation to the casual overtime matter but through this - the preparation process for today we've obtained those instructions, so we would like to put on some submissions in relation to casual overtime if the Vice President is willing to allow us to do so.

PN35

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Well, of course you'd be allowed to do so. Would that simply be a written submission?

PN36

MR PROCTER: Yes, that's what we're imagining at this stage.

PN37

THE VICE PRESIDENT: How long would you require to do that?

PN38

MR PROCTER: We're guided by you, Vice President. We do intend to have counsel settle those submissions but his availability is such that if we were to comply with his available dates, we'd be looking at 19 January. But if the Vice President's minded to move things faster then we'll comply as the Fair Work Commission requires.

PN39

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Right. No, that should be fine.

PN40

MR PROCTER: Sorry, Vice President, just to confirm. So 19 January is all right?

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, I'll just try and wrap this up in a second. So 19 January will be fine.

PN42

MR PROCTER: Thank you.

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Does anyone want to reply to anything else that's been said? What I'll do is firstly I'll make a direction that apart from the Australian Swimming Coaches and Teachers Association, any other interested party which wishes to file either evidence and/or submissions in the matter or request a hearing before the Full Bench shall provide advice to my chambers within seven days or today's date. Mr Procter, what I'll do is I'll await that advice. In the event that no other party seeks an opportunity to put on submissions or seek a hearing, I'll direct you to file your submission as contemplated by 19 January next year - - -

PN44

MR PROCTER: Thank you.

PN45

THE VICE PRESIDENT: - - - and I'll allow other parties say three weeks to put in any reply submission for that. But obviously, Mr Procter, if a number of other parties seek a hearing and want to put on evidence in submissions as well, it might require a different and more elongated timetable.

PN46

MR PROCTER: Understood.

PN47

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, today or tomorrow I'll issue formal written directions to that effect. Is there anything else I can deal with today?

PN48

MS MOLONEY: Vice President Hatcher, this Ms Moloney in Melbourne.

PN49

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN50

MS MOLONEY: I just wanted to understand, and perhaps you're only dealing with the issue of casual overtime under the Fitness Award, but an issue was raised by the AWU in relation to overtime in general for the Sporting Organisation Award and I wondered whether there would be an opportunity to request directions in relation to submissions in that matter. We now act on behalf of the AFL who has recently instructed us to act. This was an issue that wasn't raised by the AWU until their submissions, which I believe were 27 January 2017, and Clancy DP indicated that there would be a directions hearing in relation to that matter, and an opportunity to file submissions. That may well be limited to the Australian Football League but Tennis Australia and Gymnastics Australia may also wish to file submissions.

PN51

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right, Ms Moloney, I'll obtain information about that. Again, I'm only concerned with the issue of casual overtime so if there's a separate issue about that you can assume that it remains with the Full Bench, of which Clancy DP is a member.

PN52

MS MOLONEY: Thank you.

PN53

THE VICE PRESIDENT: But I'll certainly check that and provide you and the organisations with advice about that.

PN54

MS MOLONEY: Thank you very much and just one other point of clarification before we finish.

PN55

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN56

MS MOLONEY: I note that in the statement issued on 4 December there was a requirement for any interested party to lodge a draft determination by 18 December. Is that still the case?

PN57

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Not at this stage. Just hold on a sec. Ms Moloney, at this stage that direction's not operative but I'll see what the parties want to do in seven days before I make a decision about that.

PN58

MS MOLONEY: Thank you very much.

PN59

THE VICE PRESIDENT: If there's nothing further, I'll now adjourn.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.45 AM]