PN1

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Can I take appearances, please?

PN2

MR S CRAWFORD: If it pleases the Commission, Crawford, initial S, for the Australian Workers' Union.

PN3

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN4

MR K BARLOW: Barlow, initial K, for the CPSU, your Honour.

PN5

MR GREELY: If the Commission pleases, Greely, for the AMWU.

PN6

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN7

MR B FERGUSON: Mr Ferguson, initial B, from the Ai Group.

PN8

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, in the back row?

PN9

MS S TRIMBY: Initial S, Trimby, T-r-i-m-b-y, from APESMA.

PN10

MS E SARLOS: Sarlos, initial E for the CFMMEU, mining and energy division.

PN11

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN12

MS A AMBIHAIPAHAR: May it please the Commission, Ambihaipahar, initial A, on behalf of the CEPU.

PN13

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And it's Mr Izzo for ABI. Yes.

PN14

MR V LIN: Lin, initial V, from AFEI.

PN15

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes.

PN16

MR M CARTER: Carter, initial M, for the AIS.

PN17

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Sorry, for the what?

PN18

MR CARTER: AIS, Association of Independent Schools.

PN19

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Okay. And in Melbourne?

PN20

MS V WILES: If the Commission pleases, Wiles, initial V, for the CFMEU, manufacturing division.

PN21

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. Thank you.

PN22

MR A ODGERS: If the Commission pleases, my name is Odgers, initial A, for the IEU.

PN23

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. And in Canberra?

PN24

MR T CULLEN: Mr Cullen, initial T, for the National Farmers' Federation, your Honour.

PN25

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Who would like to report?

PN26

MR FERGUSON: I will if that assists, your Honour. I think you've already received a copy of the intended directions that we've put up. As I understand it all the parties are supportive of this course of action.

PN27

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes. That's ‑ ‑ ‑

PN28

MR FERGUSON: Just so I can ‑ ‑ ‑

PN29

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, all right. That's a start, but go ahead.

PN30

MR FERGUSON: I appreciate that. What's being proposed is a course of action that hopefully will enable this matter to be dealt with on the papers. In short what we've proposed is that the hearing dates be vacated. That the parties be provided a short window to provide some written submissions to the material that's now been filed or in response to that material. And then we've proposed, out of caution, an opportunity for any party to indicate to the Full Bench whether they feel there's any need to respond to that material that's filed, if there's any new matters that are raised. That would be by the end of this year. And if no response is indicated to that, the view would be that this matter could just be dealt with on the papers.

PN31

That has the benefit obviously of relieving the parties and the Full Bench of essentially two days of hearing, but the other reason for advancing this course of action is given the volume of material submissions that have come in, I think there's submissions from about 10 different parties that have come in, and the nature of that, the arguments that we'll be dealing with, it's fairly detailed. We'll be arguing about the intricacies of different award wording and so forth. We think it's most efficiently done in writing, and so we've advanced this course of action.

PN32

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I'll tell you now I won't be going beyond direction 3. Why is the rest of all that necessary?

PN33

MR FERGUSON: It was just in case there was something unforeseen. It shouldn't be necessary we'd anticipate in the sense that if the material that's put on is properly responsive then from our perspective we'd be content with that. I think the parties were just anxious about if perhaps entirely new issues were raised in the reply material having an opportunity to deal with it. The same issue could of course happen if we had a hearing, if new arguments were advanced and so forth, we might be met with the parties saying at that point, well, out of fairness we'd seek an opportunity to consider that and put additional material on. So we thought this would just - you wouldn't put the parties to the task of necessarily responding, but we'd just leave that window open. Bu we're not - I think that was put just to keep everyone satisfied.

PN34

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Does anyone else wish to add anything?

PN35

MR BARLOW: Your Honour, I understand it to be a consent position, but I just wish to correct the record in regards to the awards subject to the proposed directions and also the statement and directions of 6 December, your Honour.

PN36

In the statement of 6 December at paragraph 8 it identifies the awards that are proposed to go to hearing next week, your Honour. And there's an award missing from that list and missing obviously as a consequence of the draft directions. It's the Broadcasting and Recorded Entertainment Award, your Honour. Now, that statement of 6 December deals at 15 with the Broadcasting and Recorded Entertainment and Cinemas Award, your Honour, but only in regards to an issue that MIA had raised. Your Honour there are already submissions on from both the ‑ ‑ ‑

PN37

THE VICE PRESIDENT: I thought we gave parties a chance to correct this statement.

PN38

MR BARLOW: Yes. I don't necessarily object to 15. What I object to in 15, your Honour, is it being removed from the list to hearing because there are already submissions on for the hearing next week regarding that award, and whether the overtime provision is cumulative or compounding, your Honour, which I don't believe to be the issue that MIA has raised. So, your Honour, I would suggest the original list of awards that was issued in the draft statement of 2 October be re-included, your Honour. Notwithstanding the fact that obviously you've given ‑ ‑ ‑

PN39

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So what's the issue?

PN40

MR BARLOW: The issue with the broadcasting or the issue that MIA has raised, your Honour? MIA aren't here and I can't speak for them, your Honour. But looking at 15 you've given them an opportunity to raise something discretely and if they don't then it's being removed from the list. What I'm saying is it shouldn't be removed from the list of awards that are going to hearing because there are already submissions on for example from ABI and the CPSU regarding how the overtime provisions in that award work.

PN41

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So you want that added to the list in direction 1?

PN42

MR BARLOW: I wanted that re-included back into the list for hearing, your Honour, next week.

PN43

THE VICE PRESIDENT: In the first direction?

PN44

MR BARLOW: And also in the directions in the event the hearing next week is vacated according to the consent position of the parties, your Honour.

PN45

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Anybody else?

PN46

MR IZZO: Your Honour, we don't oppose that course of action. It does appear that there was dispute about whether the loading is cumulative or compounding during overtime. If that remains in dispute and there's submissions on it should properly be determined.

PN47

THE VICE PRESIDENT: All right.

PN48

MR CRAWFORD: Your Honour, in relation to the Horticulture Award there's a consent position between the AWU, the NFF and AiG to the effect that that award doesn't need to be dealt with by this Full Bench; that it's really a potential dispute about terminology that can be dealt with if it's part of the finalisation of the exposure draft next year.

PN49

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Can you advise what the agreed position is?

PN50

MR CRAWFORD: Your Honour, there's no agreed ‑ ‑ ‑

PN51

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, no, I meant in writing, so I can administratively deal with it.

PN52

MR CRAWFORD: Yes.

PN53

THE VICE PRESIDENT: And is that with the NFF?

PN54

MR CULLEN: Yes. Yes, your Honour.

PN55

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Do you agree with that, Mr Cullen?

PN56

MR CULLEN: Yes, I think so. Yes.

PN57

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Perhaps if the parties could put in a joint position in writing and then we can deal with it. Anybody else?

PN58

MR ODGERS: Your Honour, in relation to the Educational Services General Staff Award it was only post the Commission's decision of 14 October and at our request that the award was added to the list of matters to be heard in respect of one issue on next Monday and Tuesday. The Commission's decision in respect of when that matter would be heard was reasonably late. The parties didn't file any additional material. The parties having already had two opportunities that they took in the past to file materials. I'm just wondering in terms of direction 3 that AiG are seeking is that to be interpreted as the materials that have been filed over the last 12 months?

PN59

THE VICE PRESIDENT: It's not my direction. I assume it's not compulsory ‑ ‑ ‑

PN60

MR ODGERS: Perhaps I can ask them in that case.

PN61

THE VICE PRESIDENT: No, Mr Odgers, I assume it's not compulsory, that if you've said everything you want to say there's no requirement that you do anything if you don't want to.

PN62

MR ODGERS: Our intention was to make brief submissions on the 16th and the 17th going to the submissions that had been made in the past. There's not very much that separates the two parties, but we haven't reached agreement, and we thought the best way of dealing with that was to have a hearing.

PN63

THE VICE PRESIDENT: So you're not on board with these directions? You just want a hearing for your award?

PN64

MR ODGERS: I realise there's some inconvenience to the Commission in convening to hear - our submissions wouldn't go for more than 10 or 15 minutes, but the Commission's original decision indicated that there needed to be a hearing in order to dispose of the issue and, in our view, that's by far the most convenient way of dealing with it.

PN65

THE VICE PRESIDENT: Anybody else?

PN66

MR LIN: Your Honour, we don't see it as absolutely necessary to convene a hearing obviously just on the Educational Services Award. We're happy to consent to the draft directions and rely on our previous submissions.

PN67

MR ODGERS: I'm sorry, your Honour, we can't hear that in Melbourne.

PN68

THE VICE PRESIDENT: The Association of Independent Schools is happy with the proposed consent directions and doesn't desire a hearing. I'm not proposing to have a hearing for 10 minutes just for the purpose of the Educational Services General Staff Award. I will make directions 1, 2 and 3 as proposed by the AiG with the modification that I will add the Broadcasting Award to the list.

PN69

Mr Odgers, if you want to say anything further in relation to the Educational Services General Staff Award then you can take advantage of the opportunity in direction 3.

PN70

I thank the parties for their attendance. I'll now adjourn.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.13 AM]