PN1

JUSTICE ROSS: Can I have the appearances in Sydney first, please.

PN2

MS N DABARERA: If the Commission pleases, Dabarera, initial N, appearing for United Voice; and with me is Bull, initial S.

PN3

MS M WELLS: May it please the Commission, Wells, initial M, appearing for Restaurant and Catering Industrial.

PN4

JUSTICE ROSS: Thanks, Ms Wells. And in Newcastle.

PN5

MS K THOMSON: If it pleases the Commission, Thomson, initial K, appearing with permission on behalf of ABI and New South Wales Business Chamber.

PN6

JUSTICE ROSS: Thanks, Ms Thomson. The purpose of today is to deal with the directions in relation to the hearing of the substantive claims in the Restaurant Industry Award. United Voice and Restaurant Catering Industrial have filed draft directions. I think it would be fair to say there's not much difference between the directions inasmuch as the proponent of a change is to file their material; then about eight weeks later any party opposing the change is to file their material; and then depending on which one you look at, three of four weeks after that the proponent of the change can file material in reply.

PN7

The difference between you, as I apprehend it, is that restaurant employers propose that the hearing take place sometime after 8 October and the directions relate to the first filing of material on 18 June; whereas United Voice's proposals are for the earlier hearing of the matter. is that essentially it?

PN8

MS DABARERA: Yes, your Honour.

PN9

JUSTICE ROSS: I think it's also fair to say that United Voice has a more limited number of claims than the employers.

PN10

MS DABARERA: That's correct as well, your Honour.

PN11

JUSTICE ROSS: In relation to the later filing, what do you want to say about that, Ms Wells? Why should the case be delayed until October, is the short version of the question.

PN12

MS WELLS: Essentially, your Honour, because this has - the initial claim was filed back in March 2014 and some time has passed since consultation was held with members of RCI. The claim essentially now has to be revisited with some of the members who did initially express an interest in assisting with ‑ ‑ ‑

PN13

JUSTICE ROSS: When you say the claims have to be revisited, does that mean that after a further consultation period you may not be pursuing the claims that you've identified or you may be pursuing them in a different form?

PN14

MS WELLS: At this stage we are still pursuing the claims that we ‑ ‑ ‑

PN15

JUSTICE ROSS: No, I appreciate that's your position now, but I'm asking whether - you say that they were filed a while ago and you require the extra time to engage in a consultation process with your members. What's the purpose of that?

PN16

MS WELLS: The consultation process has been ongoing since 2014. Essentially the reason for that is to allow our members to have sufficient time to be in a position to prove the requisite material by way of witness statements.

PN17

JUSTICE ROSS: If you've been doing it ongoing since 2014 why do you need an extra six months to do it?

PN18

MS WELLS: The difficulty is some ‑ ‑ ‑

PN19

JUSTICE ROSS: You've known about the issue since October last year when the statement was issued.

PN20

MS WELLS: Yes, your Honour. The difficulty is the members who initially expressed an interest to participate in the proceedings, in some circumstances they are no longer members of the association. We are currently in the process of consulting members, and we have received significant feedback and interest. We thought it was a considerable proposal in terms of the programing, but we are in your hands, your Honour.

PN21

JUSTICE ROSS: Anything you wish to say about it?

PN22

MS DABARERA: Your Honour, our only point would be that we're mindful that the process has been ongoing for some time as well, and that's - in terms of putting our directions of the eight weeks I suppose we're looking at progressing the matter earlier rather than later, but it is in the Commission's hands, your Honour.

PN23

JUSTICE ROSS: What's the interaction with the Hospitality Award matter? Does that create any difficulty for you?

PN24

MR BULL: None, no. There will be the further reviews in the penalty rates ‑ ‑ ‑

PN25

JUSTICE ROSS: The substantive matters in relation to the hospitality.

PN26

MR BULL: The Restaurant and Catering Association withdrew their claim for ‑ ‑ ‑

PN27

JUSTICE ROSS: No, I'm asking whether it creates an issue for United Voice if ‑ ‑ ‑

PN28

MR BULL: There's a resource issue.

PN29

JUSTICE ROSS: Yes, that's exactly the issue.

PN30

MR BULL: I would prefer - I was going to say Ms Dabarera will likely do the hearing herself, but I will be involved in the revocation proceedings, and that starts on 1 July to 23 July. So it would perhaps - look, you can list them around that time because there are two of us.

PN31

JUSTICE ROSS: But is there any particular urgency in relation to your claims?

PN32

MR BULL: No.

PN33

JUSTICE ROSS: One option would be to split the case and you run your claims now, pretty much.

PN34

MR BULL: I think it's better to keep them together, just in terms of tidiness. That's - sorry.

PN35

JUSTICE ROSS: All right. Anything from ABI?

PN36

MS THOMSON: No, thank you, your Honour. We're in your hands and happy to be guided by the other parties who are running substantive claims.

PN37

JUSTICE ROSS: And I don't think ABI is running a substantive claim. Is that right?

PN38

MS THOMSON: No, we're not. So it will just be a matter of responding and seeking instructions in that regard.

PN39

JUSTICE ROSS: What I'm minded to do is I will list the matter in four weeks or so for further mention. I will do it by telephone. What I will be wanting to know at that time, Ms Wells, is I want you to confirm which claims you're pursuing. So have your consultation, check whether you can get the requisite evidence together and which matters you want to pursue, and then I will issue directions in relation to it.

PN40

MS WELLS: Certainly, your Honour. Thank you.

PN41

JUSTICE ROSS: Nothing further?

PN42

MS DABARERA: Nothing further.

PN43

JUSTICE ROSS: Thanks very much. I will adjourn.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.37 AM]