PN1084

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you. Is there any change of appearances? No. We'll deal with some housekeeping matters. There's been an application for our next inspection to Mitolo's Eastern Creek facility. Mr Bourke, the Bench is not able to go in any event. We haven't heard from Mitolo as to what their view is about this inspection.

PN1085

MR BOURKE: We have no view. We're simply of the view that if the Commission consider they would be assisted and weighing that up against the inconvenience we'll organise it.

PN1086

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, as I understand it there is a witness scheduled at 2 o'clock today. The person from Italy. Is that still the case? (Indistinct)

PN1087

MR ROGERS: It is, your Honour.

PN1088

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, and it won't be happening tomorrow, Mr Smith's not available in any event, nor is the Bench, having changed the dates. We need to understand what is the basis for this additional inspection so why do we need to do this inspection?

PN1089

MR BAKRI: Your Honour, the - - -

PN1090

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Because you haven't set it up in correspondence.

PN1091

MR BAKRI: No, your Honour, we thought it was better dealt with during the hearing. The inspection's been proposed on the basis that - of my instructions that there are significant differences between the operations out at Eastern Creek versus the Angle Vale Road facility, which we will be seeing on Thursday.

PN1092

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: They are going to be differences on any site. I mean Mitolo's not the only (indistinct) aren't covered by this award.

PN1093

MR BAKRI: That is so.

PN1094

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We weren't going to do 27 inspections. It was really to have some narrow focused inspections.

PN1095

MR BAKRI: Yes, that is so. I should say the world has changed, as it does since we made the application and the situation is now that Ms Colquhoun has put on - provided us with a - Mitolo has provided us with a fourth statement from Ms Colquhoun which proposes to provide evidence in relation to that facility. So whilst we still think there's some utility in going out to Eastern Creek, to an extent that need has been obviated by Mitolo now putting on some evidence about what happens at that site.

PN1096

Our interest here was to make sure that the Commission's in the best position to assess the applications and we thought given that the Commission thought there was utility in seeing the South Australian operations, that there would be some utility in going out to Eastern Creek. So we agree with what my learned friend said that it's a matter of weighing up the inconvenience with any benefit that would be served. Whilst we still hold the position that there is benefit, we accept of course there's inconvenience, particularly when there's a large number of parties and it's a Full Bench. Whilst we do press the application, we're in your hands as to whether it's something of sufficient utility to warrant it or not.

PN1097

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, right we'll come back to it in a moment while we're going through these housekeeping matters. In relation to a proposed visit which is occurring on Thursday, Mr Bourke, is the final version the one that starts at 10.30 and finishes at 3.30, the one dated 27 June? That says we meet at Mitolo, then we go - - -

PN1098

MR BOURKE: Yes.

PN1099

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: - - - then we have lunch, then we go to Zerella and that's it.

PN1100

MR BOURKE: Yes, your Honour.

PN1101

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Because the other parties have dropped out I understand.

PN1102

MR BOURKE: Yes.

PN1103

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Is there any other housekeeping matters that you wish to raise? Or any other party wishes to raise?

PN1104

MR BOURKE: Yes, your Honour. Does the Bench have our latest proposed timetable?

PN1105

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: One dated 3 July.

PN1106

MR BOURKE: Yes, we have some hard copies if that's convenient.

PN1107

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That's the one that says Ms Colquhoun being recalled, then Mr Lightfoot if wanted, Mr Davis, opening statements, Mr Turnbull and Mr Kazmi.

PN1108

MR BOURKE: Correct, correct.

PN1109

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes.

PN1110

MR BOURKE: An issue has emerged because we have received three statements, one of which we have no issue with. The second one we have no issue with provided we can file a statement in response. The third one, the majority of the statement we do object to. We received last Friday at 4.39 eastern standard time - - -

PN1111

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Which statement are you talking about?

PN1112

MR BOURKE: Sorry?

PN1113

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Which of the statements are you referring to?

PN1114

MR BOURKE: They are the second statement of Kay Rault where no objection is taken. A statement of Jafar Kazmi deals with Mitolo's facility at Eastern Creek in New South Wales where no objection is taken subject to Mitolo being granted leave to rely on a second further statement of Paula Colquhoun, which we served at 8.11 pm last night, that deals with that site. We will be requiring Mr Kazmi for cross-examination. I understand that has been arranged for today via telephone. The third statement which we have issue with is a second statement of George Robertson. Does the Commission have that?

PN1115

MR BAKRI: We have copies here if that would be of assistance.

PN1116

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: What's the date of that statement?

PN1117

MR BOURKE: It's dated 30 June 2017.

PN1118

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I don't seem to have it.

PN1119

MR BAKRI: We can hand that up, your Honour.

PN1120

MR BOURKE: Now we have no objection to paragraphs 1 to 8 of Mr Robertson's - - -

PN1121

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Have you had a discussion with your opponents in relation to this statement, about the objections?

PN1122

MR BOURKE: We've told them we're objecting.

PN1123

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: But have you ever had time where you can work it out?

PN1124

MR BOURKE: No.

PN1125

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: No. What I propose to do is we'll take a short adjournment because we'll discuss whether there's going to be another view, and you should have a discussion before we actually deal with the objections to see whether you can reach a landing on them.

PN1126

MR BOURKE: Yes, thank you.

PN1127

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [10.41 AM]

RESUMED [10.48 AM]

PN1128

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, Mr Bourke.

PN1129

MR BOURKE: Thank you for that time and it was productive. There's no objection to Mr Kazmi's statement going forward and as part of that arrangement there's no objection to Mitolo relying on the second further supplementary of Paula Colquhoun. It also deals with that location at Eastern Creek. In relation to the second Robertson statement, it's now agreed that the NUW will not rely upon paragraphs 9 to 39 - - -

PN1130

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Sorry, just while you're dealing with the Robertson statement, paragraphs 9 to 39?

PN1131

MR BOURKE: Yes, that we'll not read - NUW is no longer seeking to rely upon paragraphs 9 to 39 of that statement, and annexures 3 to 8 referred to in those paragraphs. We have no objection to the balance of Mr Robertson's second statement.

PN1132

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Annexures 3 - so it's all the other annexures that follow through to the end of the document?

PN1133

MR BOURKE: Correct, and otherwise Mr Robertson is not required for cross-examination.

PN1134

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, we'll make sure that we tidy up all the witness statements with exhibits shortly who might be required. That deals with the evidence then.

PN1135

MR BAKRI: Your Honour, if I may just clarify the NUW's position. We do not seek to rely upon paragraphs 9 to 39 of the statement, nor do we seek to adduce evidence of those annexures. However, we may take the Commission to some of these documents in closing submissions. I just wanted to make it clear that whilst we don't adduce evidence of these matters that we may still rely on, for example, the EBAs in a different manner.

PN1136

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, we'll see how that unfolds.

PN1137

MR BAKRI: Yes.

PN1138

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I'm not sure I understand that but we'll see how it unfolds.

PN1139

MR BAKRI: Thank you.

PN1140

MR BOURKE: I think it should be recorded that any evidence - - -

PN1141

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I'm assuming it's not going to be done by way of evidence. It's going to be done by a submission of some sort.

PN1142

MR BOURKE: Yes.

PN1143

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: But it clearly can't be the annexures and if it means that we're going to be given copies of the enterprise agreements, presumably that's just we get a copy of the enterprise agreement.

PN1144

MR BOURKE: All I'm saying, your Honour, is that we should have notice if enterprise agreements are going to be tendered during closing we should be given notice that they're going to be relied upon.

PN1145

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: You certainly should be given notice of that and the purpose for which they're being used for. The way they've been put in Mr Robertson's statement, they're giving a spin as in terms of what actually happens in that enterprise, which is different to what the documentation would say. So you need to tread with some caution how you use the material.

PN1146

MR BAKRI: Yes, your Honour, it's understood.

PN1147

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: So far as the further inspection's concerned, we're not minded to have a further inspection. We note the comments of the union that there is now a fulsome statement by the company representative, you can ask some questions about that. Also, as was clear from the unredacted version of Mr Robertson's statement, there are many employers in the industry and we're not going on a world tour of employers. The matter is quite narrow and needs to be focused accordingly, and the personal inspection was really to give a snapshot, not a complete picture, and the matter is not being run as looking at 300 establishments, for example. Anyway we're ready to proceed with the evidence.

PN1148

MR BOURKE: Your Honour, I recall Paula Colquhoun.

PN1149

THE ASSOCIATE: Please state your full name and address for the record.

PN1150

MS COLQUHOUN: Paul Colquhoun, work address is Angle Vale Road, Virginia, South Australia.

<PAULA COLQUHOUN, RECALLED AND RESWORN [10.53 AM]

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR BOURKE [10.53 AM]

PN1151

MR BOURKE: Your Honour, just to - we'll need to lead some brief evidence-in-chief with Ms Colquhoun adopting her second supplementary witness statement. Ms Colquhoun, have you made a second supplementary witness statement for these applications, dated 3 July 2017?‑‑‑Yes, I have.

*** PAULA COLQUHOUN XN MR BOURKE

PN1152

Are you familiar with the contents of that statement?‑‑‑Yes, I am.

PN1153

Are the contents true and correct?‑‑‑Yes, they are.

PN1154

I tender that statement, if the Commission pleases.

PN1155

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That will be exhibit 7.

EXHIBIT #7 SECONDARY SUPPLEMENTARY WITNESS STATEMENT OF PAULA COLQUHOUN DATED 03/07/2017

PN1156

MR BOURKE: Commission pleases.

PN1157

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, Mr Bakri.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BAKRI [10.54 AM]

PN1158

MR BAKRI: Thank you, your Honour. Ms Colquhoun, in your third statement you've given some evidence about flexible arrangements that in your view are required at Mitolo's operations. I want to ask you a few questions about this evidence. Firstly, you've given evidence that on average produce is generally dispatched from site the same day as being packed. You go on to say it is very unusual for produce that has been packed to be stored on-site for more than 48 hours. Kay Rault will give evidence that she doesn't agree it is very unusual for potatoes to be stored for more than 48 hours. Ms Rault also gives evidence that when produce is stored for more than 48 hours, sometimes it is opened, regraded and repackaged. Do you agree with that evidence, that if produce is stored for more than 48 hours that it's opened, regraded and repackaged?‑‑‑It is on very rare occasions that product is stored for more than 48 hours. We have strict specification from customers that has strict used by dates and packed before dates - packed dates as well. Now occasionally stock will be reopened but that's for a number of reasons. It could potentially be that we didn't have an order for that stock on the day but generally if the stock looks like it's going to be more than 48 hours, our sales team will push it into market rather than Coles and Woolworths.

PN1159

So when you say it's very unusual - this may just be a matter of how you're interpreting what very unusual is. How often does it happen that stock is stored for more than 48 hours in your view?‑‑‑It's the company's aim to get that produce in the door and out the door as quickly as possible. I can't make comment on that except for that it's a perishable product and it has to go out as quickly as it can.

*** PAULA COLQUHOUN XXN MR BAKRI

PN1160

But would you agree that on a week - at least once a week product will remain more than 48 hours?‑‑‑There may be a small proportion but again the largest proportion of that product is in the door, out the door on the same day, if not the following day.

PN1161

You've also given evidence that the majority of time that potatoes will be dispatched the same day to customers. You go on to say:

PN1162

Occasionally, potatoes remain in the cool room for one or two days before being dispatched.

PN1163

Now I want to give you a chance to clarify this answer. Is it more accurate to say that some produce is regularly stored in the cool room for one or two days?‑‑‑Every day's different. Orders come in at different points in time, so what's in the cool room is - generally has had an order placed on it or there's orders coming through for that stock, so it's rotated and dispatched according to orders. So it may potentially be there for a day, maybe two days, but it's depending on also too what time of the day it's been packed and when that truck is coming in to collect it.

PN1164

See, in your statement you say that it's only occasionally that potatoes would remain for one or two days?‑‑‑Correct.

PN1165

Do you maintain that that's - that they remain in the cool room for one or two days only occasionally, or is it more regular than that?‑‑‑One to two days is the aim to get it out before that two day mark, most definitely, but as I said the majority of the product is out on the same day.

PN1166

Yes, and you would agree with me that regularly some of the product, a portion of the product would remain for up to two days?‑‑‑Some of the product will be in for a day and then even a lesser proportion of that product in two days but as I said we've got strict dates that we have to put on as a best before date to the packed dates, and we've also got to take into consideration as well there's a three day travel by truck up to the eastern states as well from South Australia, so it has to be out quickly.

PN1167

I now want to move onto the shift arrangements.

*** PAULA COLQUHOUN XXN MR BAKRI

PN1168

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Just before you move on, so I understand what's being said. Does all the product go through the cold storage or does some never get into the cold storage when we're talking about this, you know, one or two days? What actually happens with the product?‑‑‑Sure. So once it's gone to what we call the end of line it's get the quality check, the pallets get wrapped and coded by the quality team and then they do go into the cool room. However, that stock's moved in and out of the cool room according to the trucks that are coming in to pick it up and dispatched from there. So it is put in the cold - into the cool room to keep that temperature down.

PN1169

So it's put in to wait for when it's ready to be dispatched?‑‑‑Correct, yes. A lot of it's just holding for those trucks to come in.

PN1170

Hence though for one or two days some product may actually take as long as two days to get out from the cool room. Is that what you're saying?‑‑‑Yes, that's right.

PN1171

Yes, thank you.

PN1172

MR BAKRI: Thank you. Moving onto shift arrangements at the Angle Vale Road site, you've given evidence that the morning shift commences from 5 am. I just want to better understand what you mean by "from 5 am". Ms Rault will give evidence that sometimes the shift will start at 6 am. Do you agree with that?‑‑‑The shifts can be variable, yes.

PN1173

She'll also give evidence that sometimes the morning shift starts as late as 8 am. Do you agree with that?‑‑‑On very rare occasions but it may extend to eight and that would be because of weather and we may not be able to get onto the pivots to dig the loads, there may be a delay in the tractors getting on the land so we have to delay the start time.

PN1174

There are other reasons that you could start at eight, such as there being less orders, yes?‑‑‑Only occasionally. There's peaks and troughs.

PN1175

At other times you start between six and eight?‑‑‑5 o'clock is the normal start time on average. As I said, it can be from six, very rarely is it anything at seven or 8 o'clock. I think very - yes, very rarely.

*** PAULA COLQUHOUN XXN MR BAKRI

PN1176

You've also given evidence that the length of shifts will vary depending on various matters. Ms Rault will give evidence that prior to the introduction of the morning shift and afternoon shift, employees will often work 5 am to 6 pm and sometimes 10 to 14 hours per day. She's given evidence that now with the two shifts per day, it's more common for the employees to work about eight hours per day. Do you agree with that?‑‑‑No, no. There's only one of our areas, our pre-pack area's on a double shift. Our other area is actually on a single shift so their hours vary as well, and also too those who are on the double shift can be doing anything up to an 11 hour day as well. It depends on orders and volume and quality of product coming through.

PN1177

I didn't quite catch what you said at the end there. Up to 11 hours a day did you say?‑‑‑On a double - on the two shifts, yes.

PN1178

On the two shifts. But you would agree that since there have been two shifts introduced, the morning and the afternoon shift that overall shift - the length of shifts has decreased?‑‑‑Monday to Friday, we can try and ease - put the hours - even them out a little bit more but Saturday's still a full production dayshift.

PN1179

Yes, but that doesn't quite answer my question. You would accept that since the shift structure has changed, since the introduction of two shifts, your understanding is that shifts are generally shorter now than they used to be prior to that change?‑‑‑Not in all areas of the business, no. In one shed, the main shed, the D shed, but the hours fluctuate depending on product, orders coming in, day of the week. Running two shifts is - it can be they're two 12 hour spans that you can roster across, again that can go up to an 11 hour and then down to a six or seven or eight hour, it just depends on the volume coming through.

PN1180

But you accept that in the D shed, Monday to Friday, overall the shift lengths have decreased since the shift arrangements changed?‑‑‑I haven't done an analysis on that, however the volume that we have got going through the business has also increased as well. So we're basically packing across a 24 hour span so the hours will fluctuate.

PN1181

But you're not in a position to disagree that the hours have decreased as I suggested?‑‑‑There is a big fluctuation in hours and yes, by running two shifts then potentially employees will not be able to work more than a 12 hour shift but, yes, you're just rostering across two 12 hour spans of hours, so it will increase - those hours will increase during promotional times and high season and they may decrease during low season times. The hours vary greatly.

PN1182

You would agree that it's much more common for employees to now work eight hours per day?‑‑‑No, it varies.

*** PAULA COLQUHOUN XXN MR BAKRI

PN1183

It's more common - I'll ask you this then. It's more common for workers to work eight hours per day as opposed to a shift length of 12 hours. You agree with that?‑‑‑This week they're on shorter hours, next week their hours could go up to 10 hour or 11 hour shifts. It depends on the volume and the orders coming through. I would need to do an average analysis just to see where it sits now compared to before. However the hours still do within those 12 hour spans vary quite greatly. Generally you'll probably find you'll be looking at more of a - maybe a nine or 10 hour shift.

PN1184

This week you said the shifts are shorter. How long are the shifts this week?‑‑‑I think they're probably - I think they're looking at doing maybe an eight and a half hour shift per day at the moment. That will change next week. It could also change because we've had a lot of rain in South Australia over the last two days, so depending on when we can dig, you might have a short shift today but we might be able to get more loads through tomorrow depending on whether our harvest staff can get onto the pivots.

PN1185

Thank you for clarifying. If we take this week as an example where you think the workers are working about eight and a half hours, that's a fairly typical shift length isn't it? It's not uncommon that workers will work eight and a half hours?‑‑‑Workers can work an eight and a half hour shift, yes.

PN1186

It's not uncommon, is it?‑‑‑No, it's not uncommon for an eight and a half hour shift.

PN1187

You've given evidence that several key production roles commence work up to one hour before the start of each shift. Ms Rault will give evidence that it is a total of four workers that start and hour earlier. She will say that it is three wash workers and one team leader. Do you agree with this evidence?‑‑‑There could be actually more than that but yes, it's probably around about - yes, between four and six, sometimes more, depending on the loads coming through.

PN1188

In your evidence you provide the example of an order being provided at 5 pm in the afternoon by a New South Wales customer and then provide a timeline or a flowchart of what would then occur. Now you would accept that with many orders that the company receives, there would be a timeline that would be easier to meet than that particular example?‑‑‑The order system and how it works is quite complicated. We can receive over two to 300 changes per week from our major supermarket chains. They'll put an order in and we've basically got someone full-time changing orders. So it's a case of trying to meet the times and the orders on a daily basis to be able to supply, I guess, the whole of Australia from South Australia. So there are fixed times for dispatch but the loads and the quality and the orders will vary greatly what needs to go on those tracks.

PN1189

But you'd accept that the example you provided is an extreme example where an order is received quite late in the day and there's then a long distance for the produce to be transported?‑‑‑5 o'clock is the close off time for the following day order, I believe for some of the supermarkets, and then they'll change throughout the day.

*** PAULA COLQUHOUN XXN MR BAKRI

PN1190

Yes, but you agree that some orders are received earlier than 5 pm?‑‑‑They're received throughout the day, yes. Throughout the whole day.

PN1191

If produce does not need to be transported a long distance, the timeline is easier to meet and there's more slack in the timeline, isn't there?‑‑‑Logistically wise, yes. I don't actually get involved with that side I guess of the rostering trucks. However, logistically they will look at what orders need to go out first, and they're locked by the distance looking at the trucks as to when that load needs to be into the customer. Also too a key point of that is the quality of the product and pack out dates, and ensure that customers receive their orders on time.

PN1192

Thank you, Ms Colquhoun, no further questions.

PN1193

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN1194

MR CRAWFORD: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN1195

MR BOURKE: No re-examination.

PN1196

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, you're excused?‑‑‑Thank you.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW [11.10 AM]

PN1197

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That takes us to the tendering of Mr Lightfoot's statement.

PN1198

MR ROGERS: Your Honour, on a previous occasion I think AWU indicated that they wished Mr Lightfoot to be available for cross-examination, so we didn't tender his statement at that time, but they've subsequently indicated they don't require him for cross-examination. I just wish to tender his statement dated 12 December 2016.

PN1199

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That will be NFF4.

EXHIBIT #NFF4 WITNESS STATEMENT OF DEREK LIGHTFOOT DATED 12/12/2016

PN1200

MR ROGERS: Thank you, your Honour.

*** PAULA COLQUHOUN XXN MR BAKRI

PN1201

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We're then ready for Robin David, thank you, Mr Smith.

PN1202

MR SMITH: If I could call Ms Robin Davis.

PN1203

THE ASSOCIATE: Please state your full name and address.

PN1204

MS DAVIS: Robin Anne Davis, (address supplied).

<ROBIN ANNE DAVIS, SWORN [11.12 AM]

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR SMITH [11.12 AM]

PN1205

MR SMITH: Good morning, Ms Davis. Could you please state your full name?‑‑‑Robin Anne Davis.

PN1206

Your current position?‑‑‑CEO Potatoes South Australia.

PN1207

Do you have a copy of the statement that you filed in these proceedings?‑‑‑Yes, I do.

PN1208

Do you wish to make any amendments to that statement?‑‑‑Yes, I do. On page 3, item number 12, where it reads:

PN1209

I am also currently on the following committees -

PN1210

I would like to change that to:

PN1211

I was on the following committees until recently.

PN1212

Thank you. Are there any other changes that you'd like to make?‑‑‑There are not.

PN1213

Apart from that change then or with that change, is your statement true and correct to the best of your knowledge?‑‑‑Yes, it is.

PN1214

No further questions.

*** ROBIN ANNE DAVIS XN MR SMITH

PN1215

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: AIG6.

EXHIBIT #AIG6 WITNESS STATEMENT OF ROBIN ANNE DAVIS

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BAKRI [11.13 AM]

PN1216

MR BAKRI: Ms Davis, in your statement you say that supermarkets generally receive the produce within 24 hours of it being harvested. Now it's correct, isn't it, that some farms that harvest potatoes store them for longer than 24 hours?‑‑‑That would be a very rare occurrence. They're normally in and out within 24 hours, so we say paddock to plate within 48.

PN1217

But it varies depending on factors such as who they are selling the produce to, how long it takes for the produce to be received by the customers. Do you agree with that?‑‑‑Well, certainly distance comes into that. If a distribution centre is on the eastern states then it's going to take longer but generally it's 24 hours.

PN1218

Do you accept that some farms have cool rooms, yes?‑‑‑Yes, they do.

PN1219

Those farms with cool room facilities are more likely to store the potatoes for longer. Do you accept that?‑‑‑The storerooms are only there for a small interim before they're dispatched. They're normally in and out in the one day.

PN1220

You'd agree that there are some key differences between the work that's undertaken by potato producers on the farm harvesting the potatoes as opposed to in the washing and packing sheds. Do you agree that there's some key differences between the work performed?‑‑‑This is a value chain. It's very integrated. Those jobs are part of that value chain. The work at one point of the chain compliments the work at the next point in the chain. Other jobs are different. They're all for the same end for that first point of sale.

PN1221

Yes, but I'm not asking you about whether they're for the same end. I'm asking you about whether in your understanding, in your position working for the peak body, whether you think the work is different looking at the work that's performed by the individuals?‑‑‑At very point in that value chain the work is skilled. So the job descriptions are different certainly. If you're in a paddock harvesting it's very different from being actually grading the potatoes. But it is all in the same value chain.

*** ROBIN ANNE DAVIS XXN MR BAKRI

PN1222

But you agree that there are distinct skills that would be employed when harvesting as opposed to in the sheds?‑‑‑The skills may be different but they're all towards one point, first point of sale.

PN1223

Now you've given evidence that one of the major barriers to exportation of potatoes are higher labour costs. Now you're aware that potatoes under the law are not allowed to be exported?‑‑‑I beg your pardon?

PN1224

Potatoes cannot be exported. Is that correct?‑‑‑Yes, they can. They can be exported. They're an export product of Australia.

PN1225

No further questions, thank you.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CRAWFORD [11.16 AM]

PN1226

MR CRAWFORD: Ms Davis, I represent the AWU. Can I take you to paragraph 41 of your witness statement please?‑‑‑Certainly.

PN1227

So from paragraph 41 to 44 you talk about what you understand the concept "farm gate" to mean?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1228

At paragraph 41 you refer to it meaning the value of produce at the first point of sale?‑‑‑Correct.

PN1229

Then you go on to say:

PN1230

It is understood in the industry as the market price that the primary producer receives.

PN1231

?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1232

Is that correct? So I'm growing fruit and I sell it to a packing house, for example, for $2 per kilo and then the packing house subsequently sells the fruit to a supermarket for $5 per kilo, what is the farm gate price?‑‑‑I can't really talk about fruit because it's not my industry. My industry is potato. Could you perhaps rephrase that for me?

PN1233

I'm happy to use potatoes as an example. So if I grow potatoes and I sell them to a separate packing house for $2 per kilo, then the packing house sells those potatoes to a supermarket, after they've been, you know, cleaned, graded whatever - - -?‑‑‑Yes.

*** ROBIN ANNE DAVIS XXN MR CRAWFORD

PN1234

- - - for $5 per kilo, what is the farm gate price. Is it $2 or is it the $5?‑‑‑It's $5.

PN1235

So that's not actually the first point of sale then is it, because the farmer's sold it to the packing house for $2 per kilo?‑‑‑But that's under a contract specifically because there is either - there is short supply, so there are outside contracts who are actually supplying to that main packing house.

PN1236

But do you agree in the example I just gave the first point of sale is the farmer to the packing house?‑‑‑It depends entirely on the contract. The first point of sale for this argument is certainly when those potatoes are sold to the supermarket.

PN1237

So I mean how do you describe the first point where the farmer sells his potatoes to a packing house. What is that?‑‑‑Well, he doesn't have a washing and grading facility to be able to get those potatoes in the form that is required by the supermarket.

PN1238

So is he not selling those potatoes to the packing house?‑‑‑He's under a contract which I'm not privy to.

PN1239

Your Honour, I'd like to hand the witness a couple of documents. They have been provided to her ahead of her appearance.

PN1240

MR SMITH: We do have objections to one of those documents.

PN1241

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, that should be done in the absence of the witness if there's going to be an objection to the documents.

PN1242

MR SMITH: Yes, well if - - -

PN1243

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Just wait outside while we deal with this point.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW [11.19 AM]

PN1244

Have you had a discussion about the objection, Mr Smith?

PN1245

MR SMITH: No, we only got these documents this morning.

*** ROBIN ANNE DAVIS XXN MR CRAWFORD

PN1246

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I think we'll take another adjournment for you to have a discussion about whether there is an objection.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [11.19 AM]

RESUMED [11.21 AM]

PN1247

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Have you resolved that matter, Mr Crawford?

PN1248

MR CRAWFORD: Yes, we have, your Honour. I'm just getting rid of the document that I've now agreed not to earmark.

PN1249

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We'll recall the witness please.

<ROBIN ANNE DAVIS, RECALLED ON FORMER OATH [11.22 AM]

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CRAWFORD, CONTINUING [11.22 AM]

PN1250

Thank you, Ms Davis, you remain on your former oath?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1251

MR CRAWFORD: May I hand the witness a document, your Honour?

PN1252

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes.

PN1253

MR CRAWFORD: Ms Davis, do you see that's an OECD document taken from an OECD glossary of statistical terms?‑‑‑Yes, I do.

PN1254

There's a definition cited of producer price for agricultural commodities and it reads:

PN1255

The producer price is the average price or unit value received by farmers in the domestic market for a specific agricultural commodity, produced within a specified 12 month period. The price is measured at the farm gate, that is at the point where the commodity leaves the farm and therefore does not incorporate the cost of transport and processing.

PN1256

Do you see that?‑‑‑Yes, I see that.

*** ROBIN ANNE DAVIS XXN MR CRAWFORD

PN1257

Do you agree with that definition of the farm gate, that is the farm gate is the point in time where the commodity leaves the farm?‑‑‑There are many definitions of farm gate. What's important here is that farm gate is a virtual concept, so it is at the point where a commodity is actually directly sold from the producer. But where that farm gate is, is a concept only.

PN1258

Well why do you say it's a virtual concept? Where do you draw that definition from?‑‑‑Because it's not a gate. It's not a real gate.

PN1259

Do you accept that the term "farm gate" is reference to a geographical area to the boundaries of a farm?‑‑‑Not necessarily. A farm gate is really a point at which the product is sold directly to the supermarkets from a producer.

PN1260

I guess that means you dispute the OECD definition because they seem to think that term is geographical nature in that it refers to the point where the commodity leaves the farm?‑‑‑No, I don't. I'm not saying that at all. Leaves the farm doesn't necessarily present itself geographically. I don't agree with that.

PN1261

Nothing further.

PN1262

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Are you tendering this document?

PN1263

MR CRAWFORD: Yes, if that's okay, your Honour.

PN1264

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes. I note it's a 2001 definition as well, for what it is worth. The document will become AWU5.

EXHIBIT #AWU5 2001 DEFINITION OF PRODUCER PRICE FOR AGRICULTURAL COMMODITIES

PN1265

Yes, Mr Smith, any re-examination?

RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SMITH [11.25 AM]

PN1266

MR SMITH: Yes, just one point of clarification if I may, Ms Davis. With this concept of the farm gate, this document that you've just been provided, is this a definition that you are aware of or are knowledgeable about?‑‑‑I have never seen it before until this morning when it was provided.

*** ROBIN ANNE DAVIS RXN MR SMITH

PN1267

In the interpretation that the question sought to place on this about the geographic nature of the words there, and you answered the question in the way that you did, but to the extent that there is a definition about a link to a geographical area, could you just describe what the farm gate concept means in your knowledge in the Australian context?‑‑‑In the Australian context, well certainly if you look at definitions in dictionaries like the Oxford and Collins, it talks about where product is sold directly from the producer. So it is the first point of sale. It is where that produce, that commodity, is in its fit for purpose for the supermarket chain.

PN1268

Is it a concept or a geographical character?‑‑‑It's a concept - it's a concept, absolutely it's a concept.

PN1269

Thank you, no further questions.

PN1270

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, you're excused Ms Davis?‑‑‑Thank you.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW [11.27 AM]

PN1271

Now the next two items on the program were opening statements from the AWU and the NUW. I know there's been some toing and froing correspondence so are you now proposing to make opening statements or not?

PN1272

MR BAKRI: For the NUW's part we do not propose to make an opening statement. What I propose to do - - -

PN1273

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, we'll need to go through all your witness statements so they're actually in - - -

PN1274

MR BAKRI: Yes, if convenient, tender those statements.

PN1275

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Let's do that then and then we'll hear from the AWU after you. Go ahead, Mr Bakri.

PN1276

MR BAKRI: Thank you, your Honour. Firstly, there are two witness statements for Kay Rault. The first being dated 21 April 2017.

PN1277

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: They will be NUW1 and NUW2.

*** ROBIN ANNE DAVIS RXN MR SMITH

EXHIBIT #NUW1 WITNESS STATEMENT OF KAY RAULT DATED 21/04/2017

EXHIBIT #NUW2 SUPPLEMENTARY WITNESS STATE OF KAY RAULT

PN1278

MR BAKRI: Next the witness statements of George Robertson. Firstly, 21 April 2017 and 30 June 2017 and in relation to 30 June we confirm that it's other than paragraphs 9 to 39 and annexures 4 through to 8.

PN1279

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, NUW3, NUW4.

EXHIBIT #NUW3 WITNESS STATEMENT OF GEORGE ROBERTSON DATED 21/04/2017

EXHIBIT #NUW4 SUPPLEMENTARY WITNESS STATEMENT OF GEORGE ROBERTSON DATED 30/06/2017

PN1280

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: It's annexure 3, actually.

PN1281

MR BAKRI: Yes, I apologise, annexure 3. Next, there is a witness statement of Mark Johnston, there's just one statement dated 21 April 2017. Mr Johnston, as I understand it, is not required for cross-examination but there is one matter that I wish to put on the record and clarify. That is that since making the statement, I'm instructed that Mr Johnston is no longer employed by his employer, Geoffrey Thompson, so I just wish to have that noted.

PN1282

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I understand.

PN1283

MR BAKRI: I don't want it to be suggested that that's a misleading or - - -

PN1284

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I don't think that will be a problem with anybody, that will be noted on - that will be exhibit NUW5.

EXHIBIT #NUW5 WITNESS STATEMENT OF MARK JOHNSTON DATED 21/04/2017

PN1285

MR BAKRI: The final statement we have is a statement of Mr Kazmi who is required for cross-examination. According to the timetable, Mr Kazmi wouldn't give evidence until quite late in the day. We're content to have Mr Kazmi interposed if that was convenient to the other parties and the Commission.

PN1286

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: It's convenient to the Commission. Is it convenient to the other parties?

PN1287

MR BOURKE: Yes.

PN1288

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Is he here?

PN1289

MR BAKRI: He's not. It's proposed that he give evidence by telephone which I understand is not objected to.

PN1290

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes, but is he available - - -

PN1291

MR BAKRI: I'm instructed that he is.

PN1292

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Is that the only other evidence you would wish to lead?

PN1293

MR BAKRI: Yes.

PN1294

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: So why don't we take a five minute adjournment to set up the telephone and we'll then deal with - actually what's the time? We'll take a 15 minute adjournment.

PN1295

MR BAKRI: Thank you, your Honour.

PN1296

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We'll bring that on at 11.30 and deal with Mr Kazmi.

PN1297

MR BAKRI: As the Commission pleases.

PN1298

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

SHORT ADJOURNMENT [11.30 AM]

RESUMED [11.49 AM]

PN1299

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Bakri.

PN1300

MR BAKRI: I call Mr Kazmi to give evidence via telephone.

PN1301

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you.

PN1302

THE ASSOCIATE: Mr Kazmi, can you hear me?

PN1303

MR KAZMI: I can.

<JAFAR KAZMI, AFFIRMED [11.49 AM]

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR BAKRI [11.49 AM]

PN1304

MR BAKRI: Mr Kazmi, can you please repeat your name and business address for the transcript please?‑‑‑Sure, name Jafar Kazmi, Suite 7, Level - sorry, Suite 5, Level 7, 377 Sussex Street in Sydney.

PN1305

Thank you, Mr Kazmi. Have you prepared a witness statement for this proceeding?‑‑‑I have. I'm just pulling up a copy of it now.

PN1306

Is the witness statement 22 paragraphs long and has one annexure?‑‑‑I'm just pulling up a copy of it.

PN1307

Sure, thank you. Have you succeeded yet, Mr Kazmi?‑‑‑No, I haven't yet. Unfortunately, I'm having some dramas connecting to the internet. Just give it a second it should work hopefully.

PN1308

Mr Kazmi, do you have any corrections to the statement you prepared?‑‑‑No, I had a look at it before it was sent and I was happy with that statement.

PN1309

Do you confirm that it's true and correct?‑‑‑I do.

PN1310

I tender that statement, your Honour.

PN1311

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: NUW6.

EXHIBIT #NUW6 WITNESS STATEMENT OF JAFAR KAZMI

*** JAFAR KAZMI XN MR BAKRI

PN1312

MR BAKRI: Mr Kazmi, the barrister for Mitolo will now have some questions for you, so just stay on the line okay?‑‑‑Sure.

PN1313

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Mr Bourke.

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BOURKE [11.52 AM]

PN1314

MR BOURKE: Mr Kazmi, I know you haven't got your statement with you but you say in paragraph 7 that the - you describe the facility at Eastern Creek in New South Wales as a packaging and storage facility. Do you remember saying that in your statement?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1315

Am I right in saying you've only ever attended this location once?‑‑‑Correct.

PN1316

That was on 28 June 2017?‑‑‑Correct.

PN1317

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I'll just note actually there is a correction to be made in the statement because the statement says he attended on 28 July 2017.

PN1318

MR BOURKE: Yes?‑‑‑My apologies, it would be 28 June, that's correct.

PN1319

You attended exercising rights as a permit holder under the Fair Work Act to have discussions with employees at the site?‑‑‑That's correct. That's correct.

PN1320

You met the workers at the lunch room?‑‑‑In the lunch area, yes.

PN1321

You didn't undertake an inspection of the facility did you?‑‑‑I did not, no.

PN1322

You didn't undertake an inspection of the work that was being done at the site?‑‑‑I did not physically see the work being done at the site, no.

PN1323

Now in terms of your description of the facility as a storage facility, do you know that in fact there's no cool room to store potatoes at that site?‑‑‑The basis of what I have said in that statement is the discussions that I had with workers. I didn't specifically ask them if there was a cool room, so I wouldn't be aware whether there is or isn't one.

*** JAFAR KAZMI XXN MR BOURKE

PN1324

But you wouldn't then dispute there may be no cool room at that site?‑‑‑I just don't know enough to make a point about that one way or another.

PN1325

Did you know that the only - did anyone tell you in your discussions that the only facility for cooling potatoes was a shipping container that can hold a total of six pallets?‑‑‑As I said, I did not have a discussion about whether there was or wasn't a cool room, what that cool room looked like or any other - yes, I don't know, I don't know.

PN1326

Were you told by anyone during your discussions that the produce when it arrives is usually dispatched the same day?‑‑‑No, I was not told that by anyone.

PN1327

Or at least the morning after. Did anyone tell you that?‑‑‑No, I was not told that.

PN1328

I notice in your statement you actually, besides describing the facility as a packaging and storage facility, you make no reference to any storage activities do you in your statement?‑‑‑I don't think so, no.

PN1329

In fact, if I can just read out part of your statement at paragraph 17, you say:

PN1330

The workers also explained to me they then take these sealed bags and pack them into various crates, pallets, as directed.

PN1331

?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1332

That's what you were told?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1333

Then the next paragraph you say:

PN1334

The workers also explained to me that the pallets, crates, are then loaded by a forklift onto a vehicle.

PN1335

That's what you were told?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1336

When you say vehicle, you mean like trucks?‑‑‑I couldn't - I would be inferring to say that. That wasn't the particulars of the discussion. They just said they loaded it onto a vehicle, so I would infer that is true but I don't know.

*** JAFAR KAZMI XXN MR BOURKE

PN1337

Then you say:

PN1338

Which carries them to their next destination.

PN1339

?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1340

Did they tell you that was the places like supermarkets?‑‑‑No, no, the workers are not aware of where they went or they didn't tell me they were aware of where they went.

PN1341

You see that when you step through that sequence that I've just taken you to, there's no reference to a storage activity, correct?‑‑‑No, I only relayed what workers told me and so my statement is entirely based on what I was told by workers. I didn't ask them how long the potatoes were stored at the facility for, whether that was one hour or five weeks, I didn't ask that question, and no one volunteered it.

PN1342

Yes, thank you.

PN1343

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Mr Kazmi, you attached some photographs which have come from an internet search?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1344

Just looking at those photographs, what it does look like is that the premises were up for lease and it shows vacant premises. Did you get these from a real estate site? Is that what you did?‑‑‑Our lawyer, so Kara, actually put the photos together and I just had a look at them to say that they did look like the site. So you'd probably need to speak to her about where the photos specifically came from.

PN1345

Well the third photo shows the inside of a building with nothing in it. Presumably you went inside a building to see the workers?‑‑‑I did, yes.

PN1346

You didn't see something like that, something that was totally empty?‑‑‑Well, I was actually unable to see the production floor, so if you walk into the room there are lockers that effectively form a wall so that you can't see beyond the breakroom or the lunch area. So I was unable to actually see the floor or the production floor of the facility. I could only testify - like I can only tell you what I saw in the lunch room but it did look like the site when the photos - when I was shown the photos. It did have that appearance generally of the site. The specifics of course, yes, you're quite right I did not see.

*** JAFAR KAZMI XXN MR BOURKE

PN1347

So paragraph 12 you've confirmed these photographs, you didn't do the internet search, somebody else did?‑‑‑No, I did not, yes.

PN1348

You can't say whether or not the site - the third photograph which is clearly on any view an empty site available for leasing. It says even in the commentary, you know, it's from a real estate site and it says "Leased 16 November 2016"?‑‑‑Okay.

PN1349

Anything arising from that question?

PN1350

MR BAKRI: No, your Honour.

PN1351

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Any re-examination?

PN1352

MR BAKRI: And no re-examination.

PN1353

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Kazmi, you may - well, we'll turn the phone off, you are discharged, thank you?‑‑‑Thanks a lot.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW [11.59 AM]

PN1354

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That concludes your case.

PN1355

MR BAKRI: That is the evidence of the NUW.

PN1356

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We'll then go to Mr Crawford. Are you intending to make an opening, Mr Crawford?

PN1357

MR CRAWFORD: No, thank you, your Honour.

PN1358

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That would mean that we'll then adjourn to 2 o'clock to do Mr Turnbull.

PN1359

MR BAKRI: Your Honour - - -

PN1360

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Yes.

*** JAFAR KAZMI XXN MR BOURKE

PN1361

MR BAKRI: - - - if I may. If I may raise, I have had a discussion with the advocate for the NFF to see if we can obviate the need to call Mr Turnbull. I'm not sure if there's a response to that yet.

PN1362

MR ROGERS: There is - we've been asked to agree to certain facts. I've tried to get some instructions and I've got some instructions but I'm not sure if they'll satisfy Mr Bakri and I'm a little bit concerned about making these concessions on the fly as it were.

PN1363

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, you don't need to make them on the fly. What we'll do is we'll adjourn the matter until 2 o'clock, we're here anyway. If there is an agreement we'll just tender the statement, if not he'll be available for cross-examination. That's the safest way of dealing with it.

PN1364

MR BAKRI: Yes, thank you, your Honour.

PN1365

MR ROGERS: Thank you, your Honour.

PN1366

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Are there any other housekeeping matters before we adjourn?

PN1367

MR BAKRI: Not from my end.

PN1368

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: We will adjourn until 2 o'clock.

LUNCHEON ADJOURNMENT [12.00 PM]

RESUMED [2.06 PM]

PN1369

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Rogers.

PN1370

MR ROGERS: Thank you, Commissioner. Mr Turnbull, it's Ben Rogers from the NFF. Hello, are you there?

PN1371

MR TURNBULL: Hello.

PN1372

MR ROGERS: Can you please provide your full name for the Commission?

PN1373

MR TURNBULL: Philip Ross Turnbull.

PN1374

MR ROGERS: Your business address?

PN1375

MR TURNBULL: Business address, Suite G1, 128 Jolimont Road, East Melbourne, Victoria.

PN1376

MR ROGERS: Your current occupation?

PN1377

MR TURNBULL: CEO of Apple & Pear Australia Ltd

PN1378

MR ROGERS: Did you prepare a statement for these proceedings dated 19 December 2016?

PN1379

MR TURNBULL: Yes.

PN1380

MR ROGERS: Do you have a copy of that statement with you?

PN1381

MR TURNBULL: I do.

PN1382

MR ROGERS: Have you reviewed that statement recently?

PN1383

MR TURNBULL: Yes.

PN1384

MR ROGERS: Is it true and correct to the best of your knowledge?

PN1385

MR TURNBULL: It is.

PN1386

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Sorry, he hasn't actually been sworn in yet but - - -

PN1387

MR ROGERS: Excuse me.

PN1388

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I'm reminded by my Associate so we'll get him sworn in before he says it's true and correct.

<PHILIP ROSS TURNBULL, AFFIRMED [2.08 PM]

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR ROGERS [2.08 PM]

PN1389

MR ROGERS: Is the statement you made on 19 December 2016 true and correct to the best of your knowledge?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1390

Nothing further in-chief.

PN1391

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Do you want to tender it?

PN1392

MR ROGERS: Sorry, can I tender the statement of 19 December 2016?

PN1393

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Exhibit NFF5.

EXHIBIT #NFF5 WITNESS STATEMENT OF PHILIP ROSS TURNBULL DATED 19/12/2016

PN1394

Yes, who's going to ask questions, Mr Bakri?

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BAKRI [2.08 PM]

PN1395

MR BAKRI: Mr Turnbull, my name is Mr Bakri, I act for the National Union of Workers. I've just got a couple of questions for you?‑‑‑Sure.

PN1396

Mr Turnbull, you've given evidence that apple and pear growers often cool store fruit in a packing facility before delivering the fruit to market. In your experience as the CEO of Apple & Pear Australia, how long are applies typically stored at the packing facility?‑‑‑Anywhere from a number of weeks, potentially up to 12 months at the extreme.

PN1397

It's fairly common that apples would be stored for a number of months, yes?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1398

You'd agree that it's fairly common that apples would be stored for up to 10 months?‑‑‑Yes, yes, that is certainly possible.

*** PHILIP ROSS TURNBULL XXN MR BAKRI

PN1399

More than being possible, in your experience it's the norm isn't it?‑‑‑Yes, it is normal. I think the incentive from a business perspective is to sell fruit sooner rather than later because obviously there are the costs associated with storage and the longer you store the higher the costs. So the incentive is not necessarily to hold it as long as possible.

PN1400

The produce, the apples when they're ready for sale, are taken out of storage by - and prepared for delivery by the workers generally who washed and packed the produce, yes?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1401

Now moving on to pears, again can you please explain how long pears are typically stored for at the packing facility?‑‑‑The same timeframe as apples potentially up to 12 months. So yes, pretty similar timeframe.

PN1402

So your evidence that was given a moment ago in relation to apples, that would apply equally to pears. Is that right?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1403

Now you would agree that there are some key differences between the work undertaken on farms harvesting apples and pears, compared to the work conducted in the packing sheds?‑‑‑There is different work between the orchard and the packing shed, yes.

PN1404

In your experience the workers who work on the farm are different from those that work in the packing sheds. Would you agree with that proposition?‑‑‑Yes, I think I can agree with that. I think - we're generalising of course but in smaller facilities there'll be dual activity depending on the business but yes in general I think that's a correct statement.

PN1405

Thank you. You would agree that the work in the packing sheds is more skilled than the work harvesting the produce on the farm?‑‑‑No, I wouldn't agree with that.

PN1406

No further questions.

PN1407

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Anyone else?

PN1408

SPEAKER: No, thank you.

PN1409

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Any re-examination?

RE-EXAMINATION BY MR ROGERS [2.12 PM]

*** PHILIP ROSS TURNBULL RXN MR ROGERS

PN1410

MR ROGERS: Just a number of questions. Mr Turnbull, when the apples and pears are stored for up to 12 months, that takes place in a cold storage facility does it not?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1411

That takes place after they're washed and packed. Is that correct?‑‑‑Again, this varies. Some facilities will wash them and grade them and then put them back into storage bins and store them and other wills just wash them and put them in storage.

PN1412

Thank you, Mr Turnbull. You were asked whether harvesting - the work of harvesting the apples and pears is different to the work of - that occurs in the packing sheds. Is the work that occurs in the packing sheds different to other activities which occur on the farm? For example, growing the fruit?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1413

Is that category of work different to the work of harvesting the apples and pears?‑‑‑Yes.

PN1414

No further questions.

PN1415

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Thank you, Mr Turnbull, you are excused. The phone will now be turned off but thank you for your participation today.

<THE WITNESS WITHDREW [2.14 PM]

PN1416

Is there anything further from anyone? Yes, Mr Bourke.

PN1417

MR BOURKE: Two matters, your Honour. One is I just raise the issue of whether people suit up for the inspection - - -

PN1418

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: They won't be suiting up.

PN1419

MR BOURKE: Yes, thank you.

PN1420

DEPUTY PRESIDENT SAMS: We've made that decision for you.

PN1421

MR BOURKE: It'll test my wardrobe anyway.

PN1422

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: (Indistinct).

*** PHILIP ROSS TURNBULL RXN MR ROGERS

PN1423

MR BOURKE: The other matter is it might be useful for any party who's proposing to speak to a written closing that that be filed and served prior to the closings commencing and we would propose a direction that any party that wishes file an outline of its closing submissions do so by 4 pm on Monday, 3 August 2017. Sorry, 31 July 2017.

PN1424

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Well, let's just hear from the other parties. Is there any - - -

PN1425

MR BAKRI: We think there would be utility in there being an exchange of submissions. Our preference would be the submissions be provided in sequence but I understand that's going to be difficult because of the various commitments that counsel have. 31 July poses some difficulties for me as I'm in an appeal immediately in the lead-up to the closing submissions hearing. I'd be grateful if the date could be 28 July, midday on 28 July for the exchange of submissions. That would give me the weekend to prepare reply submissions.

PN1426

MR BOURKE: I have no issue with that.

PN1427

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Right. Any other party have any problem with that sort of timetable?

PN1428

SPEAKER: No.

PN1429

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: So submissions on 28 July then how long do you want to reply?

PN1430

MR BOURKE: We weren't anticipating a reply. That can simply be done in oral submissions.

PN1431

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I think Mr Bakri wants to actually reply.

PN1432

MR BOURKE: Sorry.

PN1433

MR BAKRI: No, I've been misunderstood, I apologise for being unclear. I would reply orally on - - -

PN1434

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: So you just want - you'll put your submissions in by 28 April(sic).

PN1435

MR BAKRI: Yes, and I would receive the other parties' submissions and that would allow me to - - -

PN1436

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: On the same day.

PN1437

MR BAKRI: Yes, yes.

PN1438

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: I'm not sure whether three days makes a difference in that sense because - anyway, if they don't do it on 28 April. If anyone has difficulties let us know.

PN1439

MR BAKRI: Yes, thank you.

PN1440

MR BOURKE: Thank you.

PN1441

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Any other housekeeping matters?

PN1442

MR BAKRI: Not from me.

PN1443

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: So far as the inspection's concerned, the revised inspection, I see what's a 10.30 start, Mr Bourke. What's your estimate of the time to get there from the CBD of Adelaide? Have you got instructions

PN1444

MR BOURKE: Around an hour.

PN1445

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: That's no problem, we just want to make sure that we're there on time.

PN1446

MR BOURKE: Thank you.

PN1447

VICE PRESIDENT CATANZARITI: Anything else from the parties? The Commission is adjourned. We will see you on Thursday.

ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [2.17 PM]

LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs

PAULA COLQUHOUN, RECALLED AND RESWORN............................ PN1150

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR BOURKE............................................ PN1150

EXHIBIT #7 SECONDARY SUPPLEMENTARY WITNESS STATEMENT OF PAULA COLQUHOUN DATED 03/07/2017.................................................................. PN1155

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BAKRI..................................................... PN1157

THE WITNESS WITHDREW.......................................................................... PN1196

EXHIBIT #NFF4 WITNESS STATEMENT OF DEREK LIGHTFOOT DATED 12/12/2016............................................................................................................................... PN1199

ROBIN ANNE DAVIS, SWORN...................................................................... PN1204

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR SMITH................................................. PN1204

EXHIBIT #AIG6 WITNESS STATEMENT OF ROBIN ANNE DAVIS.... PN1215

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BAKRI..................................................... PN1215

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CRAWFORD.......................................... PN1225

THE WITNESS WITHDREW.......................................................................... PN1243

ROBIN ANNE DAVIS, RECALLED ON FORMER OATH........................ PN1249

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR CRAWFORD, CONTINUING............. PN1249

EXHIBIT #AWU5 2001 DEFINITION OF PRODUCER PRICE FOR AGRICULTURAL COMMODITIES................................................................................................. PN1264

RE-EXAMINATION BY MR SMITH............................................................. PN1265

THE WITNESS WITHDREW.......................................................................... PN1270

EXHIBIT #NUW1 WITNESS STATEMENT OF KAY RAULT DATED 21/04/2017............................................................................................................................... PN1277

EXHIBIT #NUW2 SUPPLEMENTARY WITNESS STATE OF KAY RAULT PN1277

EXHIBIT #NUW3 WITNESS STATEMENT OF GEORGE ROBERTSON DATED 21/04/2017............................................................................................................................... PN1279

EXHIBIT #NUW4 SUPPLEMENTARY WITNESS STATEMENT OF GEORGE ROBERTSON DATED 30/06/2017................................................................... PN1279

EXHIBIT #NUW5 WITNESS STATEMENT OF MARK JOHNSTON DATED 21/04/2017............................................................................................................................... PN1284

JAFAR KAZMI, AFFIRMED........................................................................... PN1303

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR BAKRI................................................ PN1303

EXHIBIT #NUW6 WITNESS STATEMENT OF JAFAR KAZMI............. PN1311

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BOURKE................................................. PN1313

THE WITNESS WITHDREW.......................................................................... PN1353

PHILIP ROSS TURNBULL, AFFIRMED...................................................... PN1388

EXAMINATION-IN-CHIEF BY MR ROGERS............................................. PN1388

EXHIBIT #NFF5 WITNESS STATEMENT OF PHILIP ROSS TURNBULL DATED 19/12/2016............................................................................................................. PN1393

CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR BAKRI..................................................... PN1394

RE-EXAMINATION BY MR ROGERS......................................................... PN1409

THE WITNESS WITHDREW.......................................................................... PN1415