PN280

THE COMMISSIONER: Good afternoon. I'll take appearances please.

PN281

MR DUNCALF: May it please the Commission, Duncalf, initial Z, for the Australian Workers' Union.

PN282

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Duncalf.

PN283

MR H ARJONILLA: May it please, Arjonilla, initial H, for the AMWU.

PN284

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Arjonilla.

PN285

MR M RIZZO: Commissioner, good afternoon. Rizzo, M, on behalf of the ASU.

PN286

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Rizzo.

PN287

MS M ROBSON: May it please, Robson, initial M, for United Voice.

PN288

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Robson.

PN289

MR D FERGUSON: And if it please the Commission, Ferguson, initial D, for the Australian Industry Group. And with me at the Bar table is Ms Bhatt, initial R.

PN290

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you, Mr Ferguson.

PN291

And Ms Bhatt, good afternoon.

PN292

All right. I was going to have this conference in person and I apologise to the parties for any inconvenience for the delay this morning. It's just that some of the flights from Melbourne today have been disrupted so in the end I decided to come back to the Commission and conduct the conference from here. And I will be going through the revised summary of submissions technical and drafting dated 19 April that I hope the parties have had an opportunity to review and consider.

PN293

I also understand that Ms Bhatt forwarded an email to Chambers this morning that the parties all now have, I hope, had an opportunity to view. So if you could just confirm with me that that email has been provided to all the parties?

PN294

Commencing with you, Mr Duncalf.

PN295

MR DUNCALF: Yes, Commissioner.

PN296

MR RIZZO: Yes, Commissioner.

PN297

MS ROBSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN298

MR ARJONILLA: Yes, Commissioner.

PN299

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. Unless there's anything that anyone wishes to raise at this stage I'll go through each of the items one by one. And for the sake of the transcript if you would mind just identifying yourselves every time you do make a submission, please? It just makes it easier for the transcript to record the parties' submissions.

PN300

MR FERGUSON: Commissioner, it's Mr Ferguson.

PN301

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, Mr Ferguson?

PN302

MR FERGUSON: If I just raise one issue that the parties have discussed before the proceedings commenced.

PN303

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes?

PN304

MR FERGUSON: The parties have had discussions prior to today and it appears that there are about a half a dozen substantive ‑ or issues that have been the subject of those detailed discussions. One of those seems to have resulted in a compromise but the other five or so ‑ ‑ ‑

PN305

THE COMMISSIONER: That's good news.

PN306

MR FERGUSON: Yes, we're making progress but the other five or so the parties are still at loggerheads on. And there has been a general view amongst the interested parties that there would be merit in today in exploring those issues in detail.

PN307

But there was a view that there might be some merit, if the Commission was content for this to occur, for the proceedings to go off record for some time so that those issues could be explored frankly in the hope that that could let us get to the heart of them and perhaps find a way forward that everyone is happy with.

PN308

That sort of course of action has been adopted in other similar proceedings in this review and everyone is supportive of that proposal if you're minded to do that. That might let us then concentrate on the contentious issues first.

PN309

THE COMMISSIONER: Mr Ferguson, I'm certainly happy to proceed on a basis ‑ ‑ ‑

PN310

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN311

THE COMMISSIONER: ‑ ‑ ‑ similar to that that you've identified as long as the other parties are happy to proceed on that basis and as long as we can identify which matters in the list are those matters that you hope to ‑ ‑ ‑

PN312

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN313

THE COMMISSIONER: ‑ ‑ ‑ have form part of the off the record discussion.

PN314

MR FERGUSON: Yes, yes.

PN315

THE COMMISSIONER: So I'd like the record to reflect, you know, which of the items are agreed, which items are still in dispute and which items are going to be the subject of an off the record discussion.

PN316

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN317

THE COMMISSIONER: Once that's done then I'm certainly happy to proceed on that basis if the other parties are happy to do that.

PN318

MR FERGUSON: No, look, and I'm happy to identify the issues that we thought should be the subject of discussion.

PN319

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Would you like to do that first and ‑ ‑ ‑

PN320

MR FERGUSON: Yes, let's do that.

PN321

THE COMMISSIONER: I take it from the silence from the other parties in the room that there's no disagreement to that approach so ‑ ‑ ‑

PN322

MR RIZZO: Yes, that's correct, ma'am.

PN323

THE COMMISSIONER: ‑ ‑ ‑ I'll proceed on that basis. All right. If you could go on, Mr Ferguson?

PN324

MR FERGUSON: So yes, the items, just working from the draft reports, item 4 and item 5.

PN325

THE COMMISSIONER: All right.

PN326

MR FERGUSON: I think item 7 we've reached some in principle agreement on. Item 8 and 9 would be the subject of discussions. Item 10 ‑ I apologise if I'm moving too quickly.

PN327

THE COMMISSIONER: No, that's fine. Yes?

PN328

MR FERGUSON: Item 10. Item 11.

PN329

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes.

PN330

MR FERGUSON: And items 12 and 13 would also be the subject of discussions. And then of course after those discussions we could go back on record.

PN331

THE COMMISSIONER: Certainly. So do I take it that the summary though is correct in terms of item 1 being agreed?

PN332

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN333

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 2 being withdrawn?

PN334

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN335

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 3 being withdrawn?

PN336

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN337

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 6 agreed?

PN338

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN339

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 7 in principle agreement. Do the other parties ‑ ‑ ‑

PN340

MR FERGUSON: For clarity, Ai Group now does not oppose the AWU Proposal.

PN341

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. The document will be amended to reflect that position. We then have item 14 agreed?

PN342

MR FERGUSON: Yes.

PN343

THE COMMISSIONER: Item 15 has been withdrawn, is that correct?

PN344

MR FERGUSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN345

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. In that case if all the parties are happy to proceed on that basis I'll adjourn into conference off the record to discuss those items.

PN346

MR FERGUSON: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN347

MR DUNCALF: Yes, thank you.

PN348

MR ARJONILLA: Thank you.

OFF THE RECORD [2.46 PM]

ON THE RECORD [4.24 PM]

PN349

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. We are now back on the record. It's 4.25 pm, the parties having conferred in relation to a number of the items on ‑ a number of items listed in the (indistinct) Summary of Submissions ‑ Technical and Drafting dated 19 April 2017.

PN350

The result of those discussions are that in relation to items 4 and 5 there is no agreement at this stage. The parties have undertaken to have discussions amongst themselves at some point prior to the next conference before me which will be listed for 1.30 pm on Thursday ‑ sorry, Tuesday, 30 May. In relation to item 7 there is in‑principle agreement.

PN351

Actually, Mr Ferguson, can you confirm that that's the case?

PN352

MR FERGUSON: Yes, there is no opposition from the Ai Group to the AWU proposal.

PN353

THE COMMISSIONER: There's no opposition. Thank you.

PN354

So there's no opposition from the Ai Group to the AWU proposal and this document will be amended to reflect that. In relation to items 8 and 9, clauses 11.2 and 11.3 of the exposure draft are to be deleted. And clauses 10.5(b) and (c) of the Water Industry Award to be inserted with the addition that on the three occasions that the word "ordinary" appears it will be replaced with the word "minimum".

PN355

Do the parties agree that that is the respective position?

PN356

And if I could start with you, Mr Duncalf? If you could just confirm that for the transcript?

PN357

MR DUNCALF: Yes, Commissioner. I can confirm that, yes, Commissioner.

PN358

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.

PN359

MR ARJONILLA: Arjonilla, MWU. Yes, Commissioner.

PN360

MS ROBSON: Robson, United Voice. Yes, Commissioner.

PN361

MR FERGUSON: And the Ai Group agrees with that change.

PN362

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. In relation to item 10 this is something that will require further consideration by the parties and will be the subject of discussions between them prior to the next conference. The same with item 11. Before I go on though and confirm those matters, are there any issues in relation to item 10 that any of the parties wish to go on the record for the present purposes?

PN363

MR FERGUSON: Not at this stage, Commissioner.

PN364

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you.

PN365

MR DUNCALF: No, Commissioner.

PN366

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 11 then is for further ‑ again for discussion and further consideration. If there's nothing that the parties wish to have recorded?

PN367

MR FERGUSON: There's nothing, Commissioner.

PN368

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. Item 12, now, 14 ‑ the first part of that item relating to 19.4(b) has been agreed. Can the parties confirm that?

PN369

MR FERGUSON: Yes, Commissioner.

PN370

MS DUNCALF: Zach Duncalf, AWU. Yes, Commissioner.

PN371

MS ROBSON: Robson, United Voice. Yes, Commissioner.

PN372

MR ARJONILLA: Yes, I agree to the proposed change.

PN373

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. The second part of that document which the exposure draft doesn't record is in reference to 19.4(c) which needs to be inserted into the exposure draft. And in relation to that document, that clause, the exposure draft needs to record that it's not being opposed by AiG, is that ‑ ‑ ‑

PN374

MR FERGUSON: No, Commissioner, to clarify, the AMWU had proposed that 19 point ‑ the exposure draft requirement amendment at clause 19.4(c). They no longer press any issue in relation to the wording of clause 19.4(c). So the exposure draft in its current form is fine with all the parties currently present.

PN375

THE COMMISSIONER: Right, thank you. Could the parties confirm that as well?

PN376

MS ROBSON: United Voice agrees.

PN377

MR ARJONILLA: The AMWU has withdrawn the claim.

PN378

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you. All right. And item 13?

PN379

MR ARJONILLA: Commissioner, that's ‑ rather, the AMWU has similarly withdrawn that claim.

PN380

THE COMMISSIONER: Right. Thank you. All right, there's nothing further. Is there anything else that needs to be put on the record?

PN381

MR FERGUSON: Nothing further, Commissioner.

PN382

THE COMMISSIONER: All right. Thank you all. All right. Well, I may see you all then on 30 May.

PN383

MR FERGUSON: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN384

MS ROBSON: Thank you, Commissioner.

PN385

THE COMMISSIONER: All right, thank you. We will adjourn. Thank you.

ADJOURNED UNTIL TUESDAY, 30 MAY 2017 [4.30 PM]