AUSCRIPT PTY LTD
ABN 76 082 664 220
Level 4, 179 Queen St MELBOURNE Vic 3000
(GPO Box 1114 MELBOURNE Vic 3001)
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TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
O/N VT1127
AUSTRALIAN INDUSTRIAL
RELATIONS COMMISSION
JUSTICE GIUDICE
VICE PRESIDENT ROSS
VICE PRESIDENT LAWLER
SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT WATSON
SENIOR DEPUTY PRESIDENT LACY
COMMISSIONER HOFFMAN
COMMISSIONER LARKIN
C2002/2281, 2282, 2283, 2284,
4268, 5545, 5546, 5547, 5548,
5558, 5559, 5569, 5639, 5640,
5674, 5679, 5692, 5693, 5694 and
5716
CHILD CARE INDUSTRY (AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL
TERRITORY) AWARD 1998
LAUNDRY INDUSTRY (VICTORIA) AWARD 1998
BUILDING SERVICES (VICTORIA) AWARD 1994
THE HOSPITALITY INDUSTRY - ACCOMMODATION,
HOTELS, RESORTS AND GAMING AWARD 1998
TIMBER AND ALLIED INDUSTRIES AWARD 1999
RUBBER, PLASTIC AND CABLE MAKING INDUSTRY
- GENERAL - AWARD 1998
GROCERY PRODUCTS MANUFACTURE - MANUFACTURING
GROCERS AWARD 1996
STORAGE SERVICES - GENERAL - AWARD 1999
COMMERCIAL SALES (VICTORIA) AWARD 1999
VICTORIAN LOCAL AUTHORITIES AWARD 2001
CLERICAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE EMPLOYEES
(VICTORIA) AWARD 1999
TRANSPORT WORKERS AWARD 1998
GRAPHIC ARTS - GENERAL - AWARD 2000
METAL, ENGINEERING AND ASSOCIATED
INDUSTRIES AWARD 1998
HEALTH AND ALLIED SERVICES - PRIVATE
SECTOR - VICTORIA CONSOLIDATED AWARD 1998
RETAIL AND WHOLESALE INDUSTRY - SHOP
EMPLOYEES - AUSTRALIAN CAPITAL TERRITORY
- AWARD 2000
VEHICLE INDUSTRY AWARD 2000
THE VEHICLE INDUSTRY - REPAIR, SERVICES
AND RETAIL - AWARD 1983
HORSE TRAINING INDUSTRY AWARD 1998
CLOTHING TRADES AWARD 1999
Applications under section 113 of the Act
and section 108 References to a Full Bench
by the applicant unions to vary the above
awards re Safety Net Review 2003 - for
directions and programming
MELBOURNE
9.05 AM, MONDAY, 16 DECEMBER 2002
MR A. WATSON: I appear on behalf of each of the applicant unions with MS M. GAYNOR and MS C. ROBINSON and I appear on behalf of the ACTU who seeks leave to intervene.
PN1
MR S. BARKLAMB: I appear for the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry with MR P. ANDERSON, DR S. KATES, and MR C. HARRIS. Also appear with me is MS V. BARTLETT from the Australian Retailers Association. I also seek to leave to tender, as we have in previous years, a list of appearances in relation to specific C numbers on behalf of the members of our organisation.
PN2
PN3
MR BARKLAMB: Thank you, your Honour. I do apologise, your Honour. There was one matter I omitted before I sat down. I also seek leave to intervene on all matters on behalf of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry.
PN4
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes, thanks Mr Barklamb.
PN5
MS C. HARRIS: I appear on behalf of the National Farmers Federation and seek leave to intervene in all matters.
PN6
MR P. BOROBOKAS: I appear on behalf of the Australian Industry Group and the Engineers Employees Association of South Australia appearing in matters 5548, 5547, 5546, 4268, 5545, 2282, 2283, 5559, 5639, 5640, 5716, 5693 and 5692, and all other matters.
PN7
MR W.J. CHESTERMAN: I appear on behalf of the VACC and also intervening on behalf of other motor traders associations, those associations being the MTA of Western Australia, South Australia, New South Wales, Queensland and the Northern Territory and the Australian Capital Territory in respect to matters 5692 and 5693.
PN8
MR E.R. COLE: I appear for the Minister for Employment and Workplace Relations on behalf of the Commonwealth intervening in all matters.
PN9
MR R. NIALL: I seek leave to appear as counsel for the State and Territory Governments in each matter and seek leave to intervene.
PN10
MR J. HARGRAVE: I appear on behalf of the Printing Industries Association in matter 5639.
PN11
MR P. RYAN: I appear in matter C number 4268 on behalf of the Victorian Association of Forest Industries and on behalf of the Timber Trade Industrial Association, and also seek to appear in matter 5569 on behalf of the Australian Road Transport Industrial Organisation.
PN12
MR C. HARNATH: I seek leave to intervene on behalf of the Master Plumbers and Mechanical Services Association of Australia.
PN13
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Any other appearances? Are there any objections to the applications for leave to intervene or them to be represented counsel in one case? All those applications are granted. Mr Watson.
PN14
MR WATSON: Yes. If the Commission pleases. There have been discussions between the major employer parties and ourselves around a set of proposed directions and that has resulted in what I think can be described as a consent position and I am in a position to hand up a copy of proposed directions which are consented to by ourselves, ACCI and AIG. I am not sure of the position of the Commonwealth and I understand the Labor States agreeing them as well. I have got seven copies. If I can hand them up. The directions are essentially modelled on last year's directions.
PN15
They provide for a timetable of exchange of written materials. There is on difference between these directions - in substance one difference between these directions and those which were circulated to the parties and forwarded to your Honour's President earlier and that is that we have pulled every one of the dates back two days. That accommodates a concern of some of the parties about the interaction of these directions with those in the redundancy test case, which directions have already been made. The Commission will see that as in the case of last year, we will file written submissions and affidavits and early February other parties will come back later in February, we will file the reply in mid-March.
PN16
Other parties will have another go at it in later March and then the matter will proceed for hearing commencing - assuming of course, that these dates are convenient to the Commission - in that late March period. As is the case with - or as was the case with last year's directions, we had attempted the limit the extent to which parties go back to the well on written materials and the situation would be that once the date for the final written step has past, they will need leave of the Commission and they will either need to show that it relates to material not available prior to that date or that there are some other special circumstances which warrant the filing of it.
PN17
In relation to that I should perhaps draw the Commission's attention to one practical issue in that regard and that is that the ABS employee earnings and hours survey was conducted earlier this year. There has been a preliminary release of data in relation to that but the final release of data is not due to occur, I think, until March. So it may be that there will be, in relation to that data, parties needing to address that material after their written submissions have gone in.
PN18
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Well, that is taken account of in any event of the directions. I think - yes.
PN19
MR WATSON: It is indeed.
PN20
JUSTICE GIUDICE: You are just warning us that - - -
PN21
MR WATSON: But I am just warning the Bench, as it were, that as distinct from last year where I think we were all able to be fairly tight about that.
PN22
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes.
PN23
MR WATSON: On this occasion there will perhaps be more need to resort to at least paragraph (a) of the relevant paragraphs. Other than that, if the Commission pleases, I have nothing further.
PN24
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes, thanks Mr Watson. Mr Barklamb.
PN25
MR BARKLAMB: Thank you, your Honour. I can reinforce what my colleague says about those that these are directions that we put to the Bench by consent. I can also indicate that this does dispose of the concern which I did bring to your attention by way of correspondence on Friday afternoon and that has been accommodated in the revised directions which we were able to reach.
PN26
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes.
PN27
MR BARKLAMB: I do understand just on one matter, that we do have a slightly truncated process in regard to the date on which applications were received this year by some parties and that some parties may wish to address the Commission on their ability to gather data at an industry level within these directions. It may be, for example, that there are some minor issues in relation to the dates of surveys and the like. I won't lead that one any further, your Honour, that is for others, but that may be something that some parties specifically seek to have accommodated within these directions. Thank you.
PN28
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Any other submissions about the directions?
PN29
MR BOROBOKAS: Just to say, your Honour, that the Australian Industry Group supports submissions being made by the ACTU and ACCI in the proposed directions. If the Commission pleases.
PN30
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes, thank you.
PN31
MR CHESTERMAN: Your Honour, I am actually one of the parties that Mr Barklamb referred to may need a little bit more time in terms of the proposed timetable set up by the ACTU which we don't really have a problem with but we generally, in conducting a survey as we do through A.C. Nielsen have to give January a miss because most of the businesses are - or some of the businesses that are part of that survey wouldn't be open, so we would be looking at starting the survey in January and usually being a national survey, that would take around three weeks to do the survey and for A.C. Nielsen to collate all the information. So I was seeking the Commission's indulgence if I could have some extra time from the date proposed by the major parties of the 26th, perhaps our date being 7 March.
PN32
VICE PRESIDENT ROSS: Was that just in relation to the survey, Mr Chesterman, or the whole submission?
PN33
MR CHESTERMAN: The whole submission. Because our submission is predominantly based on a survey.
PN34
VICE PRESIDENT ROSS: Yes.
PN35
JUSTICE GIUDICE: We understand that. We will wait and see what Mr Watson - - -
PN36
MR CHESTERMAN: Right.
PN37
VICE PRESIDENT ROSS: - - - has to say about it before ruling on it.
PN38
MR CHESTERMAN: Thanks, your Honour, thank you.
PN39
MR COLE: If the Commission pleases. The Commonwealth has no objection to the proposed directions and programming.
PN40
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes.
PN41
MR NIALL: If the Commission pleases. As far as the States and Territories are concerned we are content with those directions.
PN42
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes. Thanks, Mr Niall. Any other submissions about the directions? Mr Watson, do you have anything to say about the special treatment? It appears there is only one request for such.
PN43
MR WATSON: I must say I am loath to see a departure from the consent position that we have reached with other parties, but in the light of, I suppose, the practical reality that on 26 February we will be inundated with paperwork from other parties. I am not minded to oppose the extension sought by the VACC.
PN44
JUSTICE GIUDICE: Yes, Mr Watson. It will be necessary for us to consider the dates which are proposed for sitting dates, so we won't do anything this morning other than indicate that in general terms the directions made will be in conformity with what has been agreed and we thank the parties for assistance in that respect.
PN45
I might mention one other matter, that an indication from Uniting Care New South Wales, ACT, that they intend to make a submission and a copy of a letter addressed to me of 5 December 2002 can be obtained from my associate if anybody wants it. We shall send that organisation a copy of the directions in this matter. Yes, I might mention that we intend to continue the approach we made last year to electronic lodgment and it will form part of the directions including the website at which documents can be lodged electronically. Are there any other matters that we need to attend to? Thank you all for your attendance.
ADJOURNED INDEFINITELY [9.21am]
INDEX
LIST OF WITNESSES, EXHIBITS AND MFIs |
EXHIBIT #ACCI1 LIST OF APPEARANCE OF MEMBERS PN3